EV owners of today and tomorrow

[Grumpycat]

View attachment 2409370

Coal is good.

That ICE SUV can not be built without electricity from coal, and lithium, cobalt, and nickel for the electronics and alloy of metals.

 

[BleedingOrange]

batteries are not green !

MSN

 

[Grumpycat]

batteries are not green !

MSN

Meh.
Nothing is "green".
Get over it.

Another lazy MSN slideshow with no references or citations.

 

[WinterDeere]

Nothing is "green".
Get over it.

True, but there are shades of a color. A battery charged from a network of mixed fuel sources including nukes and renewables is better than an ICE operating 100% from refined petroleum, before we even start arguing about net efficiencies, which are pretty terrible for the ICE auto.

Furthermore, where you locate the latrine matters. ICE air pollution in a dense city may impact public health more than lithium mining in remote locations. All things worth consideration.

I don't choose my vehicles based on environmental impact, in fact most might accuse me of just the opposite, but I won't deny BEV's have way less atmospheric impact than ICE's for those living on our highly-populated coasts. I don't care enough to put my money where my mouth is, but I also won't pretend that BEV's are somehow worse than ICE's... they're not.

 

[4570Man]

True, but there are shades of a color. A battery charged from a network of mixed fuel sources including nukes and renewables is better than an ICE operating 100% from refined petroleum, before we even start arguing about net efficiencies, which are pretty terrible for the ICE auto.

Furthermore, where you locate the latrine matters. ICE air pollution in a dense city may impact public health more than lithium mining in remote locations. All things worth consideration.

I don't choose my vehicles based on environmental impact, in fact most might accuse me of just the opposite, but I won't deny BEV's have way less atmospheric impact than ICE's for those living on our highly-populated coasts. I don't care enough to put my money where my mouth is, but I also won't pretend that BEV's are somehow worse than ICE's... they're not.

The impact from mining the lithium is pretty considerable. The impact from making a 600 pound ICE engine is pretty minuscule compared to the billions of tons of steel in production anyway. The ice engine is almost completely recyclable where the battery not so much. The rate of ice vehicles bursting into flames which causes a lot of environmental damage is pretty low. Electric vehicles make a hobby of bursting into flames. The Ice engine can be in service for decades with minimal repairs. The batteries need complete replacement at considerable cost much more frequently.

 

[shooterdon]

I am one of those "entitled white dudes". When buying a vehicle, the impact on the environment is not even a passing thought. I don't care.

What man does, compared to Mother Nature, is insignificant wrt to climate change. Of course, if we start playing who can make the most ash trays and start throwing nukes at each other that changes...but then it won't matter anyway.

Getting the task done in comfort and without drama comes first, then reliability/serviceability, then fuel economy.

 

[WinterDeere]

The impact from mining the lithium is pretty considerable. The impact from making a 600 pound ICE engine is pretty minuscule compared to the billions of tons of steel in production anyway. The ice engine is almost completely recyclable where the battery not so much. The rate of ice vehicles bursting into flames which causes a lot of environmental damage is pretty low. Electric vehicles make a hobby of bursting into flames.

I am not sure any of those facts are entirely honest or accurate. Yes, BEV's do spectacularly go up in flames, but not as often as ICE's. It's more spectacular and difficult to extinguish when they do, but we still see more ICE fires than BEV's.

And why couch the impact from making an ICE engine in "compared to the billions of tons of steel in production anyway"? That's like justifying peeing in the pool, just because someone else has already done it.

Recyclability? Electric motors are mostly copper and iron by weight, both highly recyclable. Also let's not forget to include the mass of non-recyclable fuel consumed by each vehicle during its lifetime... which far-outweighs any of the hardware involved.

I am one of those "entitled white dudes". When buying a vehicle, the impact on the environment is not even a passing thought I don't care... Getting the task done in comfort and without drama comes first, then reliability/serviceability, then fuel economy.

Agreed. I'm arguing on the point of truth and honesty. Environmental impact does not weigh at all into my actual vehicle purchasing decision. I just don't like people who lie or pretend to believe half-truths for the sake of justifying their decisions.

ICE's are bad for the environment, on the whole worse than BEV's. Now get over it, and go drive whatever you want.

 

[LouNY]

I am not sure any of those facts are entirely honest or accurate. Yes, BEV's do spectacularly go up in flames, but not as often as ICE's. It's more spectacular and difficult to extinguish when they do, but we still see more ICE fires than BEV's.

And why couch the impact from making an ICE engine in "compared to the billions of tons of steel in production anyway"? That's like justifying peeing in the pool, just because someone else has already done it.

Recyclability? Electric motors are mostly copper and iron by weight, both highly recyclable. Also let's not forget to include the mass of non-recyclable fuel consumed by each vehicle during its lifetime... which far-outweighs any of the hardware involved.


Agreed. I'm arguing on the point of truth and honesty. Environmental impact does not weigh at all into my actual vehicle purchasing decision. I just don't like people who lie or pretend to believe half-truths for the sake of justifying their decisions.

ICE's are bad for the environment, on the whole worse than BEV's. Now get over it, and go drive whatever you want.

matter of opinion as "facts" can are twisted frequently to fit the desired narrative.

BEV's are bad for the environment, on the whole worse than ICE's. Now get over it, and go drive whatever you want.

 

[Grumpycat]

The impact from mining the lithium is pretty considerable. The impact from making a 600 pound ICE engine is pretty minuscule compared to the billions of tons of steel in production anyway.

Oh, it is OK if we are already doing it and have for a long time. Got it.

Lithium mining doesn't have to rape the environment. But when one grants China an exclusive market to control 3rd world countries, rape is to be expected.

60 years ago it was common to rape the environment mining nickel, even in Canada. Willing to do without stainless steel?

The ice engine is almost completely recyclable where the battery not so much.

Not true. Nothing is consumed in a lithium battery. A worn out battery is a richer source of ore than virgin from a mine.

The rate of ice vehicles bursting into flames which causes a lot of environmental damage is pretty low.

Not true. The per-million rate of ICE spontaneous combustion is greater than for EV.

Electric vehicles make a hobby of bursting into flames.

Only because it is new and gets attention. Not because the rate of fires, which is less than that of ICE.

The Ice engine can be in service for decades with minimal repairs.

ICE engines are much loved due to their need of constant repairs! Utter Mensa Geniuses such as Scotty Kilmer can't imagine anything other than an ICE world because that is all his superstitious mind can handle.

The batteries need complete replacement at considerable cost much more frequently.

How frequently is that? No generalities here, you stated point blank, "more frequently". My 2013 Tesla battery had 93% of it's original capacity after 10 years. How frequently? Elon Musk has stated they expect Model 3 and Y batteries to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles.

 

[Grumpycat]

I am one of those "entitled white dudes". When buying a vehicle, the impact on the environment is not even a passing thought I don't care.

Nobody here cares. Nobody but those dropping by to share their irrational hate of EVs.