Another Newbie looking to buy a tractor

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That seems like a tall order for a tractor / backhoe. Digging out and moving 3000 lb rock and stumps is not light duty stuff!

It is and is the wrong equipment to consider.

 

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I've created in pathways into the woods several times mostly for driveways.
If you are establishing a new driveway in virgin forest ground, I have found the best tool to do that with is tracked Front end loader.
A tractor is a total waste of time to do this type of job and you will hurt your new tractor.
The proper way to do this is to dig down a foot or so with a tracked loader such as a JD450 or equivalent.
Then fill in this width and length with yards of processed Gravel and it goes best to do this with the track loader.
I've worked in the woods for many a year and will categorically state that the woods are capable of breaking lots of machinery.
Using a tractor to attempt to dig into the woods floor, is like using a Q-tip to dig a trench.

 

[arrow]

For the DIY vs Hired done comments;
800 LF, clear, strip, compact, and 6" of base is probably gonna run, 4 12 hour days, or about $14,400 labor ( that's pushing the rocks and trees/stumps out of the way, not hauling), 320 tons of base material, or about $4,800 in material. Culverts would be atleast $4,000 more, but could be more. So, I'm rough bidding $30,000. If you are Way out, that would go up another 25%.

DIY, you're still going to want at least a 4 ton roller to proof roll your subgrade, then your base. That's probably $1000/week rental. Your rock isn't going to be cheaper, culverts you can self source. I think you can save about $10,000-20,000. It's probably going to take you the better part of 160 man hours, but you have half payed off the tractor that will give you many decades of service.

This brings me to my point, if you don't need a 60hp utility tractor long term, hire it done. If you do need it, buy it and work it. If your long term plan needs a 30hp, buy that, do the stripping/clearing with a $600/day rental tracked skid steer. Then do the spreading, grading, with your 30hp tractor.

Unless of course he breaks his new $60,000 tractor that needs $20,000 worth of repairs. I've seen this happen.
Poor guy had a tree fall on his cab, bent his loader to smithereens and tore up the front end of his tractor gearing.

 

[paulsharvey]

Unless of course he breaks his new $60,000 tractor that needs $20,000 worth of repairs. I've seen this happen.
Poor guy had a tree fall on his cab, bent his loader to smithereens and tore up the front end of his tractor gearing.

You're not wrong. It's just hard to judge what we are really dealing with, from a terrian, tree cover, rock, stump, and operator skill level. That last part isn't meant as a dig at the OP or anyone else; i generally assume people are competent at running their equipment, but I also do realize many aren't, either from inexperience, or over confidence.

Even general assumptions can be radically different; one guys idea of over grown, might be another guys idea of brush, or someone else's heavy timber.

Even trees, a scrub oak, you can general break off or push over with very little effort, and the truck and stump will break down in a year or two. A large long leaf pine, might take 25 years to break down, and have a tap root that goes 12 ft down. A live oak could easily be 60" around, and have a root ball that extends outwards for 20+ feet. With that, the trees in Maine might be different than the trees in N FLa.

 

[paulsharvey]

Anyone remember the member who posted "how to clear 800 acres of 2-3 in trees"; there was advice everywhere from a riding mower to a D8.

 

[Williy]

you can always drill holes in the large rock and
fill with a splitter that you pour in the holes and
swells up and splits the rock so you can handle
the smaller pieces

willy

 

[airbiscuit]

By my reading, The OP is looking to make a jeep trail through the woods (and rocks) along the path of least resistance. Then refine it more later. Lots of us have done that with a tractor, a chainsaw, and brute strength. Good Luck!

 

[paulsharvey]

By my reading, The OP is looking to make a jeep trail through the woods (and rocks) along the path of least resistance. Then refine it more later. Lots of us have done that with a tractor, a chainsaw, and brute strength. Good Luck!

That could from very easy to very hard, depending on density and terrian. At my place, I think I needed to take out all of 2 trees to make a 7 ft wide traio 1000 ft long. Now, to make that same trail (suitable for the SxS and tractor) usable by my Ram, I would probably need to take out 50 trees. If I wanted to make it accessible by a semi, it would be 150. Even with that, if you have the time, it's not that bad to cut a tree and push it out of the way, and flush cut the stump.

 

[airbiscuit]

That could from very easy to very hard, depending on density and terrian. At my place, I think I needed to take out all of 2 trees to make a 7 ft wide trail 1000 ft long... NIf I wanted to make it accessible by a semi, it would be 150...If you have the time, it's not that bad to cut a tree and push it out of the way, and flush cut the stump.

 

[MaineBarn]

Yes, Kubota makes a semi-construction grade tractor in small acreage size. Called their TLB line (tractor, loader, backhoe). They used to make their TLB in 4 sizes, now they make it in 3: 25, 47, & 62 hp. They all have similar options & rugged construction. The backhoe is also removable for mounting a 3pt hitch.

Kubota TLBs are heavily built machines, more expensive though. Nice machine to keep for a lifetime.

Another option that hasn't gotten much attention are older used full size backhoes from small municipalities. Usually well-maintained and replaced on a schedule. I have seen some really nice buys there.

As far as using water at a lake-side location.... Many towns use lakes to store their water. It simply requires processing. Home water processing is a popular solution: low tech and low cost.

rScotty

Carl_nh had mentioned the TLB line tractors and shared a FB post of a used one around 3hrs away. It's intriguing. Would prefer new and based on the Kubota MSRP, only the small one would be feasible. However, that one would have too little capacity to have even a puncher's chance.

Really good point about town equipment. Checked the government auctions and current nearby inventory was bid right, but looked beaten. Will check until I get a tractor.

In an ideal world, we'd do a water filtration system. The housing structure itself is another issue. Very small and dated. It's only 8' from the edge of the lake and can't rebuild elsewhere on the small lot due to setbacks. If we rebuilt the current structure, can't increase the volume by more than 15%. Which means it'd still be tiny.

 

[paulsharvey]

On municipal back hoes; one thing to watch for, often cities will purchase 2WD back hoes, as they aren't in heavy construction. They often road run them to install a water service, move tree debris from roadway, ect. A 2Wd back hoe can still do a Lot of work, and can often get itself unstuck; When you get one really stuck, as in buried, you are in for either an extremely long ordeal or a very high tow bill. For the driveway job, you will want 4wd. For the projects around your house, like moving snow away from the home, a 19,000 lbs machine just might be too much.

 

[MaineBarn]

I've created in pathways into the woods several times mostly for driveways.
If you are establishing a new driveway in virgin forest ground, I have found the best tool to do that with is tracked Front end loader.
A tractor is a total waste of time to do this type of job and you will hurt your new tractor.
The proper way to do this is to dig down a foot or so with a tracked loader such as a JD450 or equivalent.
Then fill in this width and length with yards of processed Gravel and it goes best to do this with the track loader.
I've worked in the woods for many a year and will categorically state that the woods are capable of breaking lots of machinery.
Using a tractor to attempt to dig into the woods floor, is like using a Q-tip to dig a trench.

Love the analogy. Appreciate the insight as well. I'm glad I asked the question add, even though hearing loud and clear that it's not the right tool, at least the general specs are least likely to fail.

Each operator is different too. I generally assume people are dumba$#es. If someone told me they had no tractoring experience and was going to be going into the woods on a hill, I'd be taking bets on how they're going to get crushed (by a rock gives even odds).

With me, I'm very much a jump in the deep end of the pool type of person. However, I'm very deliberate and will start off with floaties.

Even when envisioning the project, my plan was to leave the tractor safely in a driveway 700' away, over a hill, when cutting trees. At no point would I be chainsawing with the tractor nearby. Tractor would show when the grapple was needed. Or when a tree didn't fully fall, would have a pull and not a use the FEL to get it free mentality.

 

[MaineBarn]

You're not wrong. It's just hard to judge what we are really dealing with, from a terrian, tree cover, rock, stump, and operator skill level. That last part isn't meant as a dig at the OP or anyone else; i generally assume people are competent at running their equipment, but I also do realize many aren't, either from inexperience, or over confidence.

Even general assumptions can be radically different; one guys idea of over grown, might be another guys idea of brush, or someone else's heavy timber.

Even trees, a scrub oak, you can general break off or push over with very little effort, and the truck and stump will break down in a year or two. A large long leaf pine, might take 25 years to break down, and have a tap root that goes 12 ft down. A live oak could easily be 60" around, and have a root ball that extends outwards for 20+ feet. With that, the trees in Maine might be different than the trees in N FLa.

Not exactly that same area, but I have walked up the hillside many times. Heck my friends and I have biked up it and it was never a situation where you couldn't see the other person from 100'. Lots of small trees dominated by some giant trees sprinkled in. Those would be the curves.

For my time frame of 2-3 months, figured it'd be all weekends both days, two weeks taking time off from work, and all evenings after 4pm to sundown. Some days could get 40' prepped for gravel, other days not even 4".

 

[MaineBarn]

That could from very easy to very hard, depending on density and terrian. At my place, I think I needed to take out all of 2 trees to make a 7 ft wide traio 1000 ft long. Now, to make that same trail (suitable for the SxS and tractor) usable by my Ram, I would probably need to take out 50 trees. If I wanted to make it accessible by a semi, it would be 150. Even with that, if you have the time, it's not that bad to cut a tree and push it out of the way, and flush cut the stump.

Flush cutting the stump would be in the toolbox for sure!

 

[rScotty]

On municipal back hoes; one thing to watch for, often cities will purchase 2WD back hoes, as they aren't in heavy construction. They often road run them to install a water service, move tree debris from roadway, ect. A 2Wd back hoe can still do a Lot of work, and can often get itself unstuck; When you get one really stuck, as in buried, you are in for either an extremely long ordeal or a very high tow bill. For the driveway job, you will want 4wd. For the projects around your house, like moving snow away from the home, a 19,000 lbs machine just might be too much.

Not how I see it. On larger machines, 2wd is just fine, maybe preferable. I'd say 2wd in full size equipment avoids more problems than it creates. Try one and you'll see why that is. Our old JD310 moves snow just fine off an even longer driveway. Nothing fancy, no special snow implements or adjustments to make, just drive forward with the bucket a few inches off the ground. The bucket fills up quickly, but no matter. All that HP and weight pushes a wedge of compacted snow that clears the drive. And it has a comfortable cab.

Depends on the person, but for us it's not too much at all. Just right for big jobs, didn't cost much, weatherproof, rarely used, and just sleeps with its trickle charger until needed.

 

[paulsharvey]

Not how I see it. On larger machines, 2wd is just fine, maybe preferable. I'd say 2wd in full size equipment avoids more problems than it creates. Try one and you'll see why that is. Our old JD310 moves snow just fine off an even longer driveway. Nothing fancy, no special snow implements or adjustments to make, just drive forward with the bucket a few inches off the ground. The bucket fills up quickly, but no matter. All that HP and weight pushes a wedge of compacted snow that clears the drive. And it has a comfortable cab.

Depends on the person, but for us it's not too much at all. Just right for big jobs, didn't cost much, weatherproof, rarely used, and just sleeps with its trickle charger until needed.

But Dirt work... You get the front end upto the axle in dirt, mud, that kinda stuff and it's sitting on front axle, rear tires kinda swimming, and you are trying to work your way out with the hoe, kinda half forward, half backward, working two feet, and 4 hands, maybe 5 hands. It's not that much fun.

 

[rScotty]

But Dirt work... You get the front end upto the axle in dirt, mud, that kinda stuff and it's sitting on front axle, rear tires kinda swimming, and you are trying to work your way out with the hoe, kinda half forward, half backward, working two feet, and 4 hands, maybe 5 hands. It's not that much fun.It doesn't work that way except in Hollywood.

Reality vs imagination. Maybe so in totally saturated clay. Even in sloppy dirt the industrial tires provide enough flotation to work. Two wheel drive has worked for Ag tractors for a long time.

 

[Carl_NH]

Carl_nh had mentioned the TLB line tractors and shared a FB post of a used one around 3hrs away. It's intriguing. Would prefer new and based on the Kubota MSRP, only the small one would be feasible. However, that one would have too little capacity to have even a puncher's chance.

Really good point about town equipment. Checked the government auctions and current nearby inventory was bid right, but looked beaten. Will check until I get a tractor.

In an ideal world, we'd do a water filtration system. The housing structure itself is another issue. Very small and dated. It's only 8' from the edge of the lake and can't rebuild elsewhere on the small lot due to setbacks. If we rebuilt the current structure, can't increase the volume by more than 15%. Which means it'd still be tiny.

I suggested the Kubota L47TLB. It's a tough machine. The new one is $70K, but that one is $42K, a good deal. They run for 4000 hours, so it's barely broken in at 500 hours.
- On your lake side well - I installed a well on our house on a lake in MA in 1980 20' off the lake after our sand point well failed. dug down 8', cased it with 2' plastic culvert, and that well produced 7 GPM and passed all the water quality tests when we sold the house.
- On SF of expansion of existing structure, its usually a % of the total current Sqaure Feet - usually not more than 30% but there are different exclusions you need to look into - here is some info Footprints on the Shore: Waterfront Home Expansion Rules Update - Murray Plumb & Murray

 

[shooterdon]

Find a local contractor and get a price to do the brunt of the work. He will have the right equipment, or know where to rent it, and the experience you lack. If the price is outrageous, try renting what you think will work for a couple of days and see how you make out. Also, by talking to the contractor you will get an idea of what you should rent.

If you decide to rent something, have someone with you in case you have an accident. If the rental equipment works you can decide if buying or renting for a few days is your best option. $2000 "wasted' renting is cheap compared to buying something that is not up to the job wrt to safety and time.

Tractor work can be dangerous. You might get lucky and just damage your machine or end up in the hospital... or worse.

A tractor to maintain a homestead will be smaller than what you need to do the road you desire. A smaller tractor could do the finishing work after the contractor does the heavy lifting.

I have a decent size tractor and hired a guy with a dozer to put in my 200 yard range. No boulders but a few trees to deal with. What he can do in four hours would have taken me two days.

 

[jyoutz]

Reality vs imagination. Maybe so in totally saturated clay. Even in sloppy dirt the industrial tires provide enough flotation to work. Two wheel drive has worked for Ag tractors for a long time.

Two wheel drive works for 10k+ pound ag tractors, but it’s limiting in a 4k pound compact tractor.