How much do you care about pre emissions

[paulsharvey]

So; as I've posted before; I bought a 2022 CK2610 tractor, same frame and engine ad a CK3510 and virtually same as 4010 (there is a filter or two different, but same block). If it wasn't for I believe a $6k price jump, I would have bought the more HP, probably the 3510. Now, sure Kioti, Ford, Kubota, Chevy, everyone is going to have an up-charge for the power; but if that was, say $2k, I would have bought that. Even if it came with the emissions equipment, at $2k more. The reason I didn't, the significant additional cost of the emissions system. Given the choice of 25hp and no emissions, vs 35-40hp with emissions, I would buy the HP, if the upcharge/cost of the emissions system wasn't so high.

BTW; Yes, I know about the screw and I haven't yet, but may in the future

 

[ultrarunner]

Couldn't agree more. Realistically, this should be regulated at the state level. The only authority that the federal government has in this arena is the authority to regulate interstate commerce, and the purpose of that clause was to keep commerce regulations fair between the states. It had nothing to do with forcing manufactures to adhere to federal bureaucratic mandates. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about how much progress we made on things like clean air, and I'm glad that we're not just dumping our used oil out in the driveway any more. Now they've taken it so far that we're doing MORE damage to the environment because the only think they will ALLOW the mfgs to make is junk that has to be thrown away and replaced every few years. If the federal government wants to influence manufacturers, they should be offering tax incentives for products that meet their qualifications and standards.

I guess California does it right in that it tends to lead the way with State specific rules that other states adopt?

 

[paulsharvey]

Heck, if you could buy something like a 60-80hp diesel Japanese mini truck, without emissions, air bags, and all that; I bet you could have a brand new one for $12k, and I would consider that as a 2nd vehicle; but emissions And safety stuff does add thousands and thousands onto the price. I'll bet there is every bit of $8k plus added onto the base price of any on road vehicle from regs;


Edit; that $12k price tag could be $15k and have AC; otherwise, I'm talking out of my butt, I want AC

 

[Jframe]

Maybe it's not so much tractors as it is what Americans lost when no one was looking. In my area people are very tired of the government dictating everything any law-abiding person can do even as law-breakers seem to operate with impunity and in plain sight. So it's difficult to find a Cummins equipped Ram pickup that hasn't been deleted. Accordingly, people don't like tier IV. People have to drive to Whitehorse, YT to buy toilets that work as the feds are afraid toilets use too much water - even though this part of the state will likely approach 100 inches of rain & snow this year at sea level. The government tells you what lightbulbs to use. If you see a large feather on the ground you can be fined big time, even go to jail, if you pick up the feather and it came from any one of many protected birds. A buddy took the National Park Service to court twice over a very similar situation - twice - and he won in the US Supreme Court both times but it cost $2 million. I'm not sure I fully understand the logic but some people say that government likes to control us because we had our hats handed to us in Viet Nam and Afghanistan. Also, it seems to me that as engines are inhibited by a controlling (out of control perhaps) government everyone just increases the horsepower they buy: earlier today I walked by a boat that has 4 brand new Mercury 500 horse 12-cylinder outboards, each had stainless dual props, pretty impressive but a lot of metal haul around.

 

[JethroB]

I dont think anywhere in the SE US does emissions checks, although maybe Charlotte or Atlanta; but NC and GA don't, nor does FLa.

I'm not against clean air, but I don't think diesel engines are a problem for clean air. I know it does kinda hurt many of us to say, but maybe some of the enivro regs from 1980s have helped. Things are a lot better now; the problem is, IMO, the agency's can't help but want to inflict more stringent regs every year.

Now, CDL vehicles are always subject to getting pulled over and harassed.

Metro Atlanta countys do require emissions testing. Something like 14 counties. Half the states population lives there. Keep’em there please.

 

[paulsharvey]

Ok, let's maybe look at this in a different, theortical approach. If you could pre-pay a "carbon emissions tax", of say 10% of the purchase price, and not have emissions; would you pay 10% higher price to not have the emissions equipment. How about 15% or 25%. What I'm getting at, is we each vote with our wallet, and my wallet is pretty dang against any additional cost.

So, I paid 20,500 for the Ck2610; and a CK3510 was $24,500, which is less of a difference than I thought. I wouldn't have been willing to pay 24.5 and an additional carbon tax or whatever

 

[JackDaniels1982]

I

I see that you are quite comfortable with the over bearing over burdening government bureaucracy that is killing us, you are quite welcome to your opinion but It sure isn't mine.
Delete, delete, delete.
And besides which whats wrong with burning coal, I've been using coal for supplemental heat for years. I may stop next year because of the physical requirements and the cost which has gone through the roof for our good coal that is being exported to that damned china at an alarming rate.

I actually hate bureaucracy, although I don't know many people that love it. I find it a necessary evil to keep the general "us", fair and on the right track. What is wrong with burning coal, well - aside from the mining practices (someone else was commenting about electric car elements needing mined), it produces sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, CO2 and particulates in the air. These contribute locally and globally to respiratory illnesses (but so does smoking!), smog and acid rain. A quick google search of "what is wrong with burning coal" will list a host of other examples. It's the same thing, in my mind - selfish at worst, short sighted at best.

 

[paulsharvey]

I think some people have missed the point; it's done, the regs exist, and you don't have any say in it; it's like gravity. The point is, now, do you care enough to sacrifice in another area, age, power, ect. Some people clearly are willing to buy a 14 year old machine at like new prices; but I'm guessing that's 1/3rd of the people; and as time goes on, that's going to be 20+ year old machines, and less and less people willing to go that route; As a primary machine. Sure, tons of guys will still have a MF135 diesel for raking or whatever, but that's not what I mean

 

[paulsharvey]

What made me post this, is the never ending replies to people on what machine to buy; and it's a well used, 35hp Kubota, someone asking if $24k is too much; and everytime people pop up with "it's pre-emissions, so it's worth every bit of $24k, if not $30k" and there are multiple, brand new, equivalent 35hp machines available, with a warranty, for that price, or almost same price.

 

[bluetim0]

Can anyone answer the DPF question, why so we have a filter, that traps super fine particles in the exhaust only to heat them up and blow them out when the filter is full. And if you are driving a ute in a stubble paddock, and the DPF does a region burn up goes your ute and paddock in flames. And don't forget dinosaurs, remember having to pull on the choke cable, depending on the vehicle, you had to have your tongue sticking out the right direction, and even then had to wait 5 minutes plus before you could drive off. Good ECU's and EFI have been wonderful.