Is it time to consider electric?

[4570Man]

Right now on COPART, there are:

2015 CASE SR210 loader that is listed as having an engine burn.
2022 JOHN DEERE 333G that is a total burn.
2005 BOBCAT S250, Engine/rear end burn.
2021 JCB LOADER (big one), Engine burn
2014 BOBCAT T750, Engine Burn
2022 JOHN DEERE 333 G BOBC Another one that is pretty toasty.

And on IAAI:

2000 NEW HOLLAND LX865, Engine burn
2021 Geihl Tracked Loader, Engine/Cab burn.
2013 TIGERCAT 610C LOG SKIDDER, burn
2003 CATERPILLAR 262 Engine Burn
2015 BOBCAT T650 SKID STEER Engine Burn / Total Burn
1995 Caterpillar 350F wheel loader (big one) Engine/rear end burn

So, a dozen skidsteers and loaders of various types.

Want to guess how many Electric Bobcat T7x and S7x loaders were listed as burnt? Total?

Probably none because there’s like 7 electric skid steers working.

 

[CliffordK]

I was looking at a electric zero steer mower and started a thread asking if anyone has one. Not a single person responded who had but the snide remarks came rolling in. One said "are you buying it for political or religions reasons?" and I gave up. Just wanted a new damn mower.

Unfortunately not a lot of people on this board seem to have dropped the dough into a new electric $5000 to $25,000 mower.

Most of the naysayers for electric vehicles seem to have never actually tried one.

I have thought of the EV zero turn mowers. I don't think the $5000 size would fit my needs at the moment, and the $25,000 ones don't fit my budget. My Toro 455d doesn't like to climb the hill, and it makes me a bit gunshy about 4x4 mowers. I have some other issues to work through on the Toro.

I'm not going to drop more than my first 3 homes combined on a new electric Bobcat.

I have been considering a rough terrain forklift. The Nesher L1400 electric wheel loader might come close to my needs, but I'm still balking at the $20,000 price tag. Definitely a lot less than the electric Bobcats though.

I wouldn't rule out an electric loader though. But probably one with a little more capacity, and I'd have to determine that it was a good multi purpose machine. However, if I ever get my planned new shop built, I might consider an electric warehouse forklift which likely has higher capacity, and is more budget friendly.

09999`1s

 

[PowerTracManiac]

Nesher machine is not lithium. I was expecting lithium but saw in the specs it is sealed lead acid. Prolly not a big fire risk.
I have an electric sealed lead acid mini kei style truck I use to drive small hand tools/supplies around when doing small maintenece jobs/tree cutting. Happy with it.

 

[ArlyA]

Most of the naysayers for electric vehicles seem to have never actually tried one.

Buy why get mean about it? Don't like new things? Sure makes me what to post less.

 

[Rustyiron]

Interesting. Apparently electric cylinders. We'll see how long those last. $200K? WHEW!!!

That's some $erious virtue signaling right there!
Fad, folly and nonsense.

 

[Hay Dude]

Right now on COPART, there are:

2015 CASE SR210 loader that is listed as having an engine burn.
2022 JOHN DEERE 333G that is a total burn.
2005 BOBCAT S250, Engine/rear end burn.
2021 JCB LOADER (big one), Engine burn
2014 BOBCAT T750, Engine Burn
2022 JOHN DEERE 333 G BOBC Another one that is pretty toasty.

And on IAAI:

2000 NEW HOLLAND LX865, Engine burn
2021 Geihl Tracked Loader, Engine/Cab burn.
2013 TIGERCAT 610C LOG SKIDDER, burn
2003 CATERPILLAR 262 Engine Burn
2015 BOBCAT T650 SKID STEER Engine Burn / Total Burn
1995 Caterpillar 350F wheel loader (big one) Engine/rear end burn

So, a dozen skidsteers and loaders of various types.

Want to guess how many Electric Bobcat T7x and S7x loaders were listed as burnt? Total?

What a silly comparison.
I bet there’s 5,000 diesel skids for every 1 electric skid.

Get a life

 

[ponytug]

@ArlyA I don't get the antagonism either. If someone doesn't want an electric doodad, buy something else. Not a big deal, at least to me. "Don't like cordless battery powered tools?" Great! Go use a hand tool, gasoline powered, or an air tool, or whatever floats your boat.

I've been around jobs where the choice was propane, electric, or by hand, and some where it was either hand or electric. No, they weren't basic outdoor foundation builds, they were excavations inside an operating facility, and there were air quality / noise requirements because of what was going on in the rest of the facility. There is a role for electric machines in some applications in my view. I would have used an electric mini bobcat in a heartbeat, and it would have been cheaper in the long run.

I think it is the old horses for courses saying. You wouldn't take a draft horse to the Kentucky Derby, any more than you would ask a two year old Derby runner to pull a plow. I like my pocket knife, but others have different brands and makes. That's great in my book. Life would be pretty boring if everyone looked the same, at the same food, and drove the exact same vehicle.

I have used lithium batteries since they came out, and I have had zero fires, but that says nothing about them in general. It does make me more comfortable with having them around. Knowing about the battery chemistries, manufacturing processes/controls, and risks, makes me comfortable about having them around.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Hay Dude]

What’s with all the snowflakey responses?

Nobody has brought political or religious reasons up except one person on the side supporting electric.

#Gaslighting????

Let’s get back to reasonable comparisons between FF and electric power and leave the victim stuff out of it.

 

[CliffordK]

Longevity of battery packs with current technology will never not be a concern. From anyone that's seen my projects, I run machines from the 1950's through the 1970's. Maybe in the future they'll figure out a compact and easy replacement battery for the battery machines they built today. But as of now, these machines will be dead in 10-20 years and won't stand a chance at being viable after 70 years. Which means that I, the homesteader, who doesn't make my living with a machine and can't afford to pay 70k for one, will be up ***** creek without a paddle.

I think there is some effort to replace battery packs in older electric vehicles. Not on a large industrial scale, but some first generation Nissan Leaf cars are getting newer battery packs, especially from newer wrecked Nissans.

The problem with the auto market is that the value of 10 year old cars falls so sharply that it hardly pays to repower them except in a few cases. I'd still like to get a first generation Tesla roadster, but those remain mighty expensive.

I have been poking around the used equipment market. The 1950's to the 1970's is a unique market with a lot of equipment being technically very viable equipment, but selling at scrap metal prices. But it isn't all roses either. A few thorns thrown in. In some cases, anything that can be worn out is worn out. And manufacturing support is spotty at best.

What if I blow the engine in my CAT 977. I'd hate to think what it would be to go to Caterpillar and purchase a new 2024 engine. If it is something simple like needing bored, sleeved, pistons, etc... perhaps that would be possible, especially with after market support. But throwing a rod could be a nightmare for replacement. Let the cannibals come out of the woodwork.

Nonetheless, I have to think there is reason why a business would buy a new 933 trackloader for somewhere between a quarter million and a half million dollars when they could go out and buy an old 977 for $5K.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think there is some effort to replace battery packs in older electric vehicles. Not on a large industrial scale, but some first generation Nissan Leaf cars are getting newer battery packs, especially from newer wrecked Nissans.

The problem with the auto market is that the value of 10 year old cars falls so sharply that it hardly pays to repower them except in a few cases. I'd still like to get a first generation Tesla roadster, but those remain mighty expensive.

I have been poking around the used equipment market. The 1950's to the 1970's is a unique market with a lot of equipment being technically very viable equipment, but selling at scrap metal prices. But it isn't all roses either. A few thorns thrown in. In some cases, anything that can be worn out is worn out. And manufacturing support is spotty at best.

What if I blow the engine in my CAT 977. I'd hate to think what it would be to go to Caterpillar and purchase a new 2024 engine. If it is something simple like needing bored, sleeved, pistons, etc... perhaps that would be possible, especially with after market support. But throwing a rod could be a nightmare for replacement. Let the cannibals come out of the woodwork.

Why would it be a nightmare? There’s probably 100 salvage yards with that engine already pulled & waiting to ship right to your door. Sure as heck be a lot cheaper than a new or reman. You should consider yourself lucky to have a running 977 for such little cost. Does wonders for the “bottom line”.

In terms of the actual job, no harder than a truck. Probably simpler because less wires & lines. I’d do a used motor on your tractor a lot sooner than on a 10 year old or newer F-150.

Nonetheless, I have to think there is reason why a business would buy a new 933 trackloader for somewhere between a quarter million and a half million dollars when they could go out and buy an old 977 for $5K.

Because large businesses have operating budgets & write offs. They have to buy new machinery. Small timers like me have to fight for every dollar.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'd be very surprised to see Power Trac offer any engine alternatives to what they currently offer until they run out of their present inventory of Deutz diesels for the PT1445 and larger models.

I think they might have had a Kubota diesel about 20 years ago, but they don't seem inclined to offer anything except gas V twins for the smaller PT425 and PT1430 models at the present.

Part of the reason I bought a 1445 is that was the lowest cost option to even get a diesel from them these days.

 

[CliffordK]

Nesher machine is not lithium. I was expecting lithium but saw in the specs it is sealed lead acid. Prolly not a big fire risk.
I have an electric sealed lead acid mini kei style truck I use to drive small hand tools/supplies around when doing small maintenece jobs/tree cutting. Happy with it.
View attachment 863350

I missed that. Not particularly surprising. And one of the reasons why most fork lifts still use lead acid batteries.

They need ballast weight, whether that is making the lifts out of extra heavy steel, adding weights, or using heavy batteries.

However, it also limits it.

If I was going to pick up one of the Nesher loaders, it would likely to use it as a multifunction power unit, and likely as a mower of one sort or another. Which means less weight and more power.

Lithium Ion batteries also have much better longevity than lead acid (one reason they're popular with solar applications).

I'd expect that eventually Nesher will offer a choice of batteries.

 

[Hay Dude]

I see a lot more propane forklifts than electric.

Only electrics I see are in Home Dumpo or Lowes. They don’t smell or make much noise.

No matter what electric machine you own/operate, its likely going to take additional fossil fuels to charge them, so there’s that, too.

 

[R Coz]

<- This surprised me

The Nesher battery is a standard size, so when it wears out, you could replace it with a different chemistry like LFP, which has ~5,000 charge cycles. For the record, I love the PT diesel and want to get one someday. I was surprised by the Nesher price and capabilities and thought it was interesting. I could see PT doing it someday and building a great tractor.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

To answer the thread title, I've been using electric all my life, even on all of our equipment.

 

[ArlyA]

Not the same power consumption but we are getting a ego zero steer mower shortly. Thought was worth a try for our little yard.

 

[CliffordK]

No matter what electric machine you own/operate, its likely going to take additional fossil fuels to charge them, so there’s that, too.

Around here most of the electricity is from renewable resources. Whether the power companies can keep up with electricity demand is another question, especially as they seem set on removing dams around the state.

I bumped into this today.

Air Burners Inc. - #1 Air Curtain Burner Manufacturer

Our air curtain burners are a cost-efficient, environmentally-friendly solution to eliminate wood and vegetative waste 40x faster than an open burn.

airburners.com

BioCharger

airburners.com

Apparently it is a mobile burn station / charging station. So you could have self recharging forestry equipment.

Not particularly cheap, but what is saving the planet worth to you?

 

[Hay Dude]

Around here most of the electricity is from renewable resources. Whether the power companies can keep up with electricity demand is another question, especially as they seem set on removing dams around the state.

I’d be interested in seeing how much energy you get “from renewables”. In my area, it’s next to nothing.

I bumped into this today.

Air Burners Inc. - #1 Air Curtain Burner Manufacturer

Our air curtain burners are a cost-efficient, environmentally-friendly solution to eliminate wood and vegetative waste 40x faster than an open burn.

airburners.com

BioCharger

airburners.com

Apparently it is a mobile burn station / charging station. So you could have self recharging forestry equipment.

Not particularly cheap, but what is saving the planet worth to you?

“Saving the planet”, huh? I guess it all depends on what you think fossil fuels do to the planet compared to solar panels. When I see these clowns ripping out hydroelectric power plants to “save the planet”, or destroying the planet mining lithium, cobalt, etc., I am dubious of their intent on “saving the planet”.

 

[2manyrocks]

IMO, much of the push towards battery powered mowers from retailers is because they see what California has done and are thinking they can make more selling us replacement batteries. They don't get any cut from us buying gas or diesel.

So many government projects have people with their hands in the till.

 

[Coffee drinker]

New theory has it oil is actually a renewable resource.