New Kioti TL-750 Track Loader AND CK4020 Tractor

[Coyote machine]

Just traded my 2010 DK-40SE/HST and KB-2485 for a brand new TL-750 Kioti Track Loader AND CK4020 SE/HST cabbed tractor. 1530+ hours on the DK-40 tractor; backhoe was bought in 2009 with my DK-35SE/HST, first Kioti tractor.

So the deal of the century on my trade to my dealer. I almost forgot to include that I also traded in my Sany SY-50U excavator- with only 115 hours! It was a great machine - and I had a blast using it- but alas I needed a cabbed track loader and cabbed tractor more, as I am aging, and want a higher level of comfort as the process of too hot and too cold is wearing me down...
Anyway my selling dealer here in VT: CCR in St. Albans, and my excellent salesman, Jake, have done right by me yet again.
They're about 2.5 hours North of me, yet they have always come through with timely on-site service on the Sany excavator, and will continue to do so on the track loader. The tractor does not rate on site service due to distance and not being 'construction' equipment category.

LIKES: Things I like about the CK40/20: I like the cab, heat, (can't speak to the AC in February); like the linked pedal, suspension seat, wide doors and handles on same. Like the LED lights and better hood mounted lights too. Liking the R-14 tires; had R-4's on both prior DK's.


DISLIKES: Can't open the hood without unpinning and lowering the top section of the brush gard! That's B team engineering on Kioti's part. Quality control; it's still a thing - come on Kioti - you've got to be kidding me on this issue - NOT impressed...

Can't see ANYTHING seated in the cab looking toward QA to connect to implements- Where are the cameras?! Really in 2023 model year NO front OR rear facing camera's so an operator can see what they're trying to connect to with the QAs, or 3PH?! Come on Kioti - this is just plain stupid - not to mention unsafe! The tractor can't be started without parking brake engaged, or locked and the op's butt planted in the seat, so being able to see what's in front of one, without dismounting the cab/tractor is too much to ask?! And with the ignition/seat/parking brake interlock, one can't incrementally move the tractor to align the QA with any attachment. Don't get me started - I get the safety police standard of seat interlock, parking brake, etc., but without cameras to assist the operator - their and other bystander's safety is clearly compromised.
Come on Kioti, if you're the first out of the gate with a front mounted camera; for instance embed a fish eye camera lens into the torsion bar shield between the loader arms, that can allow for some fine tuning adjustment for adequate distance focusing, ALL other manufacturers will follow suit! So I challenge you to do what ALL, or at a minimum of most all tractor buyers would gladly pay extra for - or at least consider as a reasonably priced option to add onto their cab or open station tractor.
Next - QA lock/release arms. Two instead of the single center mounted arm on my DK series tractors. No problem going back to two release/lock arms, as I believe were used prior to my 2008-2010 DK series, BUT the tow arms on the CK series do NOT include the handle end black rubber? grip pieces that are on some other models of Kiotis. Why? I'm told by my dealer everything is down to cost cutting measures to be competitive in the marketplace. I say BS and ridiculous! Keep the handle grip pads, install cameras, be better at what matters to customers and you'll have more satisfied customers than you will focused on the pennies saved vs. the 'other guy'. Everyone I talk to agrees that bring options, reasonably priced and buyers will decide what thy want, AND what they're willing to pay for...
My '23 Ford F-150 has more cameras than I can count and in places I can't hardly locate, showing me multiple views of where I'm going, or about to go. Are we supposed to believe most guys, who will likely self- install a rear facing camera on the front or back, or both ends of their tractor, wouldn't select it as an option if offered at time of purchase? I doubt it! JMHO. What say you - Kioti owners/purchasers?
Note - I will do a like/dislike on the track loader separately for brevity of this post.
Stay tuned...

 

[Dave Canfield]

Congratulations on the new equipment! Since you started a rant, I cannot resist adding to it.
I like the idea of embedding cameras. One for the SSQA, one for bucket cutting edge, one for the fork tips, etc. It could be just two well thought out cameras I suppose.
While on the subject of cheap upgrades that would move the tractors up in the luxury/quality class - below are a few more inexpensive ideas (at least for the cab models):
The SSQA handles could stand to have their edges deburred prior to plating unless the handles get a rubber coating.
Another thing while on the Skid Steer Quick Attach - the tubes for the locking pins need to be a bit longer. Takes a bit of fiddling around to get the pins to start sliding inside the tubes because the lever pushes the pins sideways (even with lots of grease).
Moving inside the cab a few half cent bumpers could be added to the stops for the break pedal, the tilt column tilt stops and anything else that clatters and bangs when operated.
Next is the radio. I feel that removing the Aux port and just going with bluetooth would cost less money, and improve sound quality/ reliability. The connections to the relays in the top of the cab and the relays themselves are not reliable. I am currently rewiring my speakers to go directly to a new radio with bluetooth.
Make the radio have power in the acc position on the ignition switch (just like normal vehicles). I like to listen to the radio when the tractor is not running but I am doing stuff just outside. I just open up all the windows.
Put/move the USB power port closer to the dash to allow phone charging and camera charging where the cords don't have to drape across the doorway. I like having my phone on a holder attached to the front window.
Sound absorption insulation - there could be a lot of sound reduction improvement for not much money by spending a few days in the engineering department with some more insulation, a pair of scissors, and a sound level meter. That would be a great help for older ears (probably a large segment of the compact tractor market demographics).
Make side lights a part of the lighting package and improve the light fixtures. I'm putting in/changing out the current fixtures for LED.
I like the tractor (DK4710SE) I bought well enough that I have recommended it to neighbors who have asked about it.
Anyway I can probably go on for awhile on other items for improvement but lunch is over and I need to pull off the top of the cab one more time and finish the radio rewiring job.

Dave

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks Dave! I appreciate that.
You reminded, me I didn't address the 3rd function valve issue, but I want to do so now.

I was not planning on having any implements that require hydraulics to attach to the CK. My plan was to use the track loader to do all the heavy lifting and grunt work. But when my salesman inquired about a 3rd function install, I began to think it over as to advantages it might provide.

I decided to have their recommended brand installed: W.R. Long.
Now here's the difference between Kioti's 3rd function and mine, and diverter valves. Kioti's kit consists of a under floor pan mounted valve and metal box housing for the hydraulic lines going to/from the valve and to the loader torsion bar, where implement hoses attach to couplers to complete the hydraulic circuit.

My 3rd function valve resides next to and aft of the factory, dealer installed, coupler block for the loader hoses.
It uses one male and one female coupler to allow easy install/removal of the loader, AND better protects the valve assembly from damage from rocks, stumps, etc. that IMHO the Kioti valve kit is susceptible to due to it's location.

More important is the Kioti kit does NOT allow for multiple functions at one time. My 3rd function DOES allow one to curl and dump simultaneously. This clearly has its advantages over a diverter valve - which, correct me if I'm mistaken, is essentially what the Kioti kit provides.

For me, NOT having the valve mounted where terrain changes/obstacles like stumps, rocks, etc. could do serious damage to the tractor and or valve is a risk I'm not wanting to take. Numerous times on my DK-40 the loader couplers located under the floor pan caught branches and one or more couplers were uncoupled - creating in one situation sudden loss of control of a loader function that nearly caused injury to a clueless bystander who had turned his back and was walking away when the incident happened. When I went to avoid him the loss of control took some time for me to recognize what was happening. Fortunately, I was able to steer clear of his dumb **s, and disaster was diverted. Get it - diverted.... Ha, Ha!

Anyway, now to address the loader torsion bar coupler bracket. The W. R. Long 3rd function came with a flat metal steel bracket that has 3 holes for the torsion bar cover, on the right, close to the right loader arm. It has two larger holes that the couplers attach to with whatever fittings one is using. Fine. The problem is the flat bracket makes the couplers on the hose ends face the ground. This is counter intuitive, and makes it nearly impossible to connect implement couplers to the 3rd function couplers easily or without making the entire process a huge struggle; not to mention the proximity of the adjacent brushgard, that when opened to allow the tractor hood to open without hitting the brushgard upon opening or closing, the brushgard is able to hit and damage the hydraulic hose protective sheathing. This cluster suc is a B team engineering problem looking for a solution.

I recently saw a DK4710 that a new friend has, and it allows the hood to open withOUT hitting the brushgard?!
Why not the CK series? Did someone on the B team go to lunch on this issue?
And when the fold down portion of my brushgard is opened the loader's torsion bar can hit the brushgard if/when lowered enough to make contact. Brilliant - NOT.
So my solution/workaround is to have a 1/2" steel plate cut with 6 bolt holes drilled to fit 1/2" longer bolts to hold the plate between the tractor frame and the brushgard- allowing the hood to open without having to unlock the pins and fold down the brushgard each time I want to check the oil level or whatever under the hood.

This is NOT a rant so much as a buyer beware expose on some stupid overlooks on the part of Kioti and or the selling dealers and vendors supplying them parts, etc.
Quality control and common sense people - is it completely gone from everything these days?! Sure as he11 seems so IMO!?

So, back to the 3rd function coupler bracket. My Kioti dealer is working with W. R. Long to find/design/make a bracket to fit on the torsion bar of the loader that will keep the brushgard from hitting and damaging the hoses, while making the couplers face straight out toward the implement being attached. This will solve the issues, once and for all, hopefully. I say hopefully because I'm going to be using flat faced couplers to make my implements, snowplow, log grapple and treeshear fit both my tractor and track loader.

Wish me luck - I may well need it still...
Hope this helps someone on TBN to 'fix' similar issues with their otherwise excellent Kioti tractor.

Cheers all,
CM out

 

[Dave Canfield]

Thanks for the information on the 3rd function kit. It sounds like a better design.
I really like the idea of a heavy plate for a spacer! My hood hits the guard just ever so slightly. A little more weight up there can only help also.

 

[Kioti Sal]

Congrats on the new units!
I've got a CK3510, so I don't have the fancy new LEDs. But one thing I have discovered is that the seat switch needs very little pressure to work. If the parking brake is on and the trans is in neutral: you can lean in, press down on the seat, and start the tractor. Saves you climbing into the cab only to get back out for something.

Also, good thing you don't have a front mounted snow blower, Coyote Machine... you'd blow a gasket! I have to remove my brush guard or my front mounted blower won't raise up more than a few inches.
Thats some real 'B team' stuff.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im surprised theres even a seat switch in a cab machine. My 2010 dk45 doesnt have any seat switch. I would hate not being able to reach thru door while standing on ground to inch machine while hooking up equipment.

 

[D&D]

Im surprised theres even a seat switch in a cab machine. My 2010 dk45 doesnt have any seat switch. I would hate not being able to reach thru door while standing on ground to inch machine while hooking up equipment.

Thats what the extendable lower links and rear 3 pt. control are for

 

[D&D]

Hmmm, I have the Kioti 3rd function and mine does open/close, lift and dump. The q/d's are located on the loader mast near the others.
Hope you enjoy crawling over the attachment more than you disliked your mini

 

[grsthegreat]

Thats what the extendable lower links and rear 3 pt. control are for

Nonesence, they dont reach far enough sometimes

 

[deezler]

Congrats on your new equipment! Thats a big investment.

I want to play devil's advocate just a bit:
- Can you seriously not see the SSQA plate if you just stand up a little? Have not heard this gripe from other Kioti owners, and I don't believe much has changed from the '10s to the '20s. Are you on the shorter side?
- A camera on the front of the tractor simply isn't needed... just stand up if you have to. A camera on the front end would just get quickly damaged when using a grapple to move brush, or hit with dirt/rocks, etc
- I like having the grill guard close to the hood. This means the loader can also be closer to the machine, instead of way out front like all those silly blue Ford/New Holland machines. How often do you need to open the hood anyway? I usually only engage one of the pins on my grill guard, so that it's quicker to unlock and raise the hood. Takes 5 seconds.
- You can easily bypass/disable the operator seat switch. They make this mod easy to do for a reason
- You mention "quality control" as a major issue on the machine but then don't give us a single example. What was not assembled correctly or poorly?

Completely agree on the QA arms not having a plastic or rubber cover, thats super janky. But also super easy to fix yourself.

Not gonna be reassuring to compare your F150 features/build quality to a tractor line that sells a few orders of magnitude less machines annually. Economy of scale is huge. But your truck was also twice the price of your tractor, no?

But also, I hope you are just venting about some sort of minor gripes, and still like the machine overall, yeah? Because these are all things you could have easily observed and verified while on the dealer lot before purchasing.

 

[grsthegreat]

On my dk45 i can see hooking up the plate just fine from cab, without standing. However, getting the times just right in the pallet sucks. Even standing up. I just dont want to bother with a camera. So after 10 years i got it pretty much under control. Only real issue is moving the fuel tank back onto dolly. For that i have to stand on ground and move peddles. And adjust loader arms. No way in he** i could get this thing centered and balanced sitting on the seat.

after years of operating skid steers on const sites, i really dont want to own one. My brother offered to give me one of his, an older one that needed some work. I declined. They have their purposes, but i hated getting and out of them. They also tear up the ground too much for my taste. But thats just me.

 

[Tractorman46]

My Kioti CK4030 I bought new in Sept 2022. By December 2022 the Central Control Unit stopped working and I couldn't even start the tractor. My dealer removed the CCU and fitted a starter button. Last year they tried reinstalling a new CCU but apperently it failed before they handed the tractor back to me.

Anyway, I have to say that apart from one thing I am happy with the machine without the CCU. The only thing that doesn't work is that the cruise control can't be cancelled by touching the brake. You have to use the switch on the dashboard - no problem in a field but a bit dangerous on the road.

The great advantage of the absence of the CCU is that the seat pressure switch no longer works and you can get off the tractor with the engine running even with it in gear. The PTO electrical controls all work as they should too.

An annoying thing to do with the design is that the control to the rear hydraulic has to be held in the open and the closed position. This fine for tipping a trailer but for operation of my 13 ton log splitter I have to use a clamp to keep it in the open position.

 

[Dave Canfield]

Detent controls are available for rear remotes. I have one of my remotes with detent. I use those ports for my backhoe when I have that mounted. The other remote pair is not detent and is used for the tilt cylinder (I have top and tilt).
The detent remote is a bit of a pain when I use it for the top cylinder because it wants to drive the cylinder all the way in or out if I am not paying attention.
I wish there was a switch to control whether I had detent or not.

 

[Dave Canfield]

So I was able to sit in a Kioti track loader today. I went to the International Agriculture Exposition in Tulare. Seems like a nice piece of equipment.

 

[Coyote machine]

To address some of the most recent replies to my posts about the CK4020. I like the machine overall. Things like the seat switch are annoying, as GRS the great mentioned. Your machine, GRS is same vintage as my DK - which was a long time ago, (not saying that's an issue, just many things have changed since 2010), and the safety police have ramped up for sure, not IMO for the betterment of the operators who want to get actual work done, (without being hounded to death with govt./OSHA like oversight of our every move). It is so annoying to not be able to stand off the seat, or to have to engage parking brake to get out with CK running. Just plain stupid...

FWIW, my truck was around $70K, and I lease - so I just rent the keys. With the equipment, I own all of it, and whether a truck or tractor, having a camera, like my truck and my Kioti track loader has just makes sense. And no, I'm not short; nor am I able to stand up in the cab, due to ignition interlock, parking brake need to be engaged, along with neutral safety and seat safety switches.

I had no problem with my midi excavator, I just wanted to get a cab tractor and track loader. If I ever got a snow blower it would be a pull forward rear mounted 3 point type. I looked at mid-mounts a number of years ago and walked away laughing at the absurdity of the installation nightmare that must be 10 times worse than the subframe backhoe mount/dismount routine... I'm happy with my HLA 2000 7' all angle front mounted plow; it has served me well for many years when I need to plow snow.

IF I had seen my CK before it was delivered I might have noticed my concerns about hood unable to open without having to lower the brushgard, but I bought sight unseen due to already having owned two Kioti tractors. My decision process was; not that I owe any explanations - I want a track loader. I saw, sat in, and decided to buy one. I had been waiting for Kioti to deliver on their market entry, and when they became available I bit.

In process I decided to also trade in my DK, backhoe, Sany excavator and so on. I selected the CK4020 based on numerous factors, but mostly wanting a downsized unit with cab. I planned to use it with most of my existing attachments: plow, grapple, box blade, tree shear, brush hog, etc. Tree shear and grapple will mostly be used on the track loader, hence I had flat faced couplers attached to those attachments, so they are interchangeable to both machines.

Though damage to a front or rear facing camera could occur, they are cheap, and fix visibility issues these tractors have. If you don't need or want one/both then don't do anything.

I'm certain that sooner than later if one company starts installing them or offering as an upgrade option, ALL others will follow suit. If I'm wrong then say so, or sue me - (I'm not going to wait until that day comes to make needed improvements to my equipment), but it will sooner than later...

One needs more than, can't open hood without moving brushgard to cite lack of quality control? Come on - whether one can leave the guard with one pin in place, or doesn't need to open hood frequently, is just justifying the ridiculous way things are headed with crap quality B team engineering put out there by manufacturers, who unless called on this type of thing will keep lowering quality to nonexistent. There is not too far away IMO.

I appreciate those who wish me well, or congratulate me on my purchases of the machines. I wouldn't have done what I did if I didn't plan to enjoy them and improve them/modify them as needed to make them my own in many ways.
I plan to install a brushgard grille, as I had on my DK, and things like cameras, etc. when I'm not actively using them for task/project completion.

 

[D&D]

To address some of the most recent replies .

Look forward to hearing/seeing more of how they work for you.

fwiw, Kioti CK2610/20, CK3510/20, CK4010/20 Brush Guard Insert (4 Bolt Version) – Broken Anvil Metalworks

 

[Coyote machine]

Wow. I was going to cite that exact company for possible brushguard solutions; at least to the problems created by there NOT being any rear protection provided to the grill, hood, headlights by the factory installed guard.

I just watched a guy on You Tube installing a kit from them. I'm considering one of their grill guards - I think it's either aluminum or stainless; can't discern from the pics on the site. I need to call or drill down further to get the specifics.

I look forward to finding lasting solutions to some, if not all of the issues/problems I've mentioned, so those who chose to can work to make their CKs and other model Kiotis the best they can be for their use.

One thing that I've hopefully solved for my 2023 CK4020 is the torsion bar bracket from the W.R. Long Co., and how it's mounted on my CK.
I've seen many pics and vids of different types of hose end connections to brackets for Kioti 3rd function and W. R. Long branded kits.
They range from bracket mounted on the side of the right side loader arm, to brackets on the right side of the torsion bar between the loader arms.
They encompass swivel adapters for the couplers that are attached to a particular kit's bracket to bulkhead fittings for Pioneer or, as is my choice, flat faced fittings.

My particular solution was to double the width of the lit's bracket, and bend it to make the bracket allow the couplings to face forward toward whatever implement is being attached to the loader. AND the hose holes were drilled 1" closer to the right loader arm, (when viewed from the tractor seat). In fact if I were doing it again I would nove another 3/8 inch further to the right, with the hyd line holes, to give maximum clearance to the hoses from the brushguard's opening/closing movement.

This would allow more room to add sleeves to the hoses, and not having them jammed in too tight a space for everything to fit ascetically, etc.

The one possible issue for my install is that flat faced couplers mated to the same couplers on my grapple/snowplow might reach out far enough to clash with the implement when rolled back fully. Time and use will tell whether it's a problem. Otherwise, this bracket mod mounts to the existing bolts that hold the factory shield to the torsion bar, and prevents hose interference when opening or closing the brushgard's moveable upper section.
Now, onto finding and installing at least a front camera for loader/QA visibility, AND possibly bending the QA arms slightly toward the hood, to keep them from hanging on implements while attaching them to the loader.
This might get done after the camera install - because better visibility could eliminate the need to modify the QA handles. Will post results.

Anyone who has a suggestion for a two camera with monitor recommendation- I'd consider it for my use.

TIA,
CM Out for now

 

[Coyote machine]

Look forward to hearing/seeing more of how they work for you.

fwiw, Kioti CK2610/20, CK3510/20, CK4010/20 Brush Guard Insert (4 Bolt Version) – Broken Anvil Metalworks

 

[Coyote machine]

D&D, your most recent reply was meant to be quoted at top of my most recent reply about the brushguard maker. Thanks - so I've included it here.
NOTE: The link notes "'for 4 bolt version", but my brushguard is the 6 bolt version - I'm going to verify they have one to fit my model guard before ordering.
I couldn't get it to quote in the original, so I added it above...

 

[D&D]

D&D, your most recent reply was meant to be quoted at top of my most recent reply about the brushguard maker. Thanks - so I've included it here.
NOTE: The link notes "'for 4 bolt version", but my brushguard is the 6 bolt version - I'm going to verify they have one to fit my model guard before ordering.
I couldn't get it to quote in the original, so I added it above...

When I ordered mine I had some questions and emailed. Jason responded same day and had it nailed down quick enough that I ordered same day.

Maybe this will help with your qa, where he uses oil, I prefer Teflon paste