New Holland 450 Rollbelt Problems

[Tx Jim]

When it's time to bale hay, the one thing I don't want is a breakdown. I want my equipment to run without issue. After all, the window to bale can be short, depending on the whims of Mother Nature.

I'm glad the NH went down the road, I certainly don't miss it but interestingly, for the most part, New Holland produces good, reliable hay tools. Just 'missed the boat on the Roll Belt. I will say the Kubota (Kneverland) bailer's electronics are light years ahead of New Holland's as well. My BV even tells me how much net is left on the net roll via the readout and I can vary the density of a bale on the fly as well. I like to start my bales with a soft center for ease of spearing and as the bale grows in size, the tension increases as well and it's all user controlled in the cab. The other thing is I got mine with centralized greasing as well the the drive chains also have metered lubrication but the favorite thing I really like is the superimposed steering wheel on the display screen that constantly tells you how the chamber is filling. I rarely, if ever have barrel shaped or lopsided bales now. Nice and square which makes handling much easier. That and the super wide standard pickup. Nice bailer and as usual, I got zero percent financing and quarterly payments. I've owned it for 2 seasons now and have had no issues at all. For me, the nicest feature is the ease of loading net, unlike the NH which was always a PITA. I'm about to trade in my NH disc machine on a Kubota center pivot disc machine with rubber crimp rolls. Not that the NH disc machine hasn't been a good runner because it has. Just time to upgrade.

How many bales have you baled with your Kubota rd baler??

 

[Ridersupfarm]

Not sure about the commenter but I base my bailer purchases on the ability of the local to me dealer and parts availabiliy and none of the ones you list are locally available. Just JD. NH and Kubota.

And you'd be correct except my NH dealer sold me a discontinued model without sharing that information with me or discounting the baler as an inducement to purchase it. The utility 450 was discontinued in Jan 2023 yet my dealer sold me one in June of 2023. Poor form and it begs the question, why was the model discontinued?

 

[5030]

How many bales have you baled with your Kubota rd baler??

Somewhere around 750 or so. An estimate as I don't have it hooked up to the tractor so I cannot ascertain the exact number. I do prefer the back load (net) on the JD bailers but in my case, I went with the BV instead. I'm 'allergic' to green paint. In fact, just sold the last JD hay tool this fall. I am having an issue with the drive roll on the BV wrapping hay on it that will require Kubota's intervention this spring however. The wrapping of the drive roll is causing a pre-load on the belts and I'm worried about them failing because of it. I'm showing quite a bit of starting tension on the belts before initiating the bailing operation but I'll let Kubota sort that out as it's under warranty. Interestingly, there is no scraper angle on the drive roller from the factory. I will most likely have to fab one up and install it per Kubota's assessment. There is square broached holes there but no scraper installed. Not a big deal to fab one actually. Installing it is another matter however. According to the Kubota manual, it will take a scraper angle but it's a revolving scraper, not a fixed one and it only comes with the sileage bailer, not the dry hay bailer.

That will be addressed prior to running hay this spring. Fingers crossed on what Kubota decides. All I know is, the more hay that gets wound around the drive roll, the more initial tension is placed on the belts and at some point the belts will fail from excessive tension. Interesting scenario to say the least. Of course both my selling dealer as well as their lead technician is aware of the issue. I don't want to see my dealer having to replace failed belts due to excessive tension on them.

Will see how that plays out this spring. For now, everything is stored away in the barn.

 

[5030]

And you'd be correct except my NH dealer sold me a discontinued model without sharing that information with me or discounting the baler as an inducement to purchase it. The utility 450 was discontinued in Jan 2023 yet my dealer sold me one in June of 2023. Poor form and it begs the question, why was the model discontinued?

Cannot answer that, only your selling dealer can. I do know the newer bailers don't physically look like the older ones and in my case, I had to add the 'gathering wheels' at substantial additional cost to overcome the narrow pickup width which is a non issue with the Kubota BV bailer.

One thing I never do is clean my hay tools other than blowing them off with compressed air. Washing any hay tools is tantamount to locked bearings in my experience. Probably the only hay tool I do wash is my disc mower simply because of the buildup on the discs themselves and the deposits on the swath board. Nice thing about the NH disc bine is the ease of changing knives and I renew the knives every fall and check the lubricant levels in the disc assemblies as well. I did hard rod the the skid shoes as replacements are stupid expensive. Hard rodding is a fairly inexpensive solution to an ongoing issue. I used Lincoln Electric SMAW rod btw. It ain't cheap but then new skids aren't either. No matter how light I set my head tension at, here, with sandy loam, skid shoe wear is an issue and far as I can ascertain, NH don't make a ploy over cover for them, unlike JD does.

 

[5030]

I suspect that like Kubota does (and other makes as well), new is new when sold and not on build date at all. Unlike automobiles, new is a relative term and new could be sitting on the lot for an undetermined amount of time and new is when you buy it. When I bought my 450, way back when, it was ordered and not sitting on the lot at all. Same with my new Kubota BV. I ordered it and waited for it to come in. Interestingly, the Kubota round bailers ship with small solid steel wheels installed, I presume to allow them to fit in a shipping container and like the perimeter frames that come on Kubota tractors (except the bigger ones) the steel wheels and frames have to be returned to Kubota in Georgia.

Working at my dealer part time, I get to 'unbox' new Kubota tractors as in check the fluids and install the rims and tires and of course install the batteries and make sure they start and run.

 

[Tx Jim]

Somewhere around 750 or so. An estimate as I don't have it hooked up to the tractor so I cannot ascertain the exact number. I do prefer the back load (net) on the JD bailers but in my case, I went with the BV instead. I'm 'allergic' to green paint. In fact, just sold the last JD hay tool this fall.

Your Kubota baler is barely "broken in"! My last 2 JD rd balers model 467 had 30,000 bales each showing on monitor. I've experienced only very minor netwrap problems & my balers never had to have a dealer technician look at it.

 

[Hay Dude]

Your Kubota baler is barely "broken in"! My last 2 JD rd balers model 467 had 30,000 bales each showing on monitor. I've experienced only very minor netwrap problems & my balers never had to have a dealer technician look at it.

Right.
With a barely broken-in baler, you can’t really assess how good/bad it is.
Talk to us when you have 10,000 bales on a baler.

 

[Ridersupfarm]

Right, but if you buy a new car and every time you drive down the street it breaks down, I don't expect you to wait until you have 30K miles on it to tell me if you like it or not. My 450 couldn't roll 30 rolls without a breakdown. At this rate it will take me 20 years to get to 10000 bales.

 

[Ridersupfarm]

I also had issues with mine and subsequently traded it in for a Kubota 4x5 round bailer. I had constant tracking issues as well and the bailer was a royal PITA to thread net wrap in. My belts would ride the side sheets no matter how I adjusted the tracking, they would always ride to one side or the other and I also had a bearing failure on one of the rolls. The other thing I wasn't keen on was the filling screen on the digital in cab display. Was always wonky. The one thing that really irritated me was the net threading. You had to thread the net in the 'center' of the duckbill assembly and deal with the cutter knife cutting you plus it was always hard to get the net tail centered and the 'stickout' on the net was also touchy. None of that pertains to my new Kubota BV round bailer. Threading the net is easy via a side window, real quick and easy and the Kubota round bailer can carry 4 rolls of net as well as 8 balls of twine and threading twine is easy as well and the Kubota BV round bailer comes standard with a wide pickup so no 'gathering wheels' required. Much better thought out bailer.

One thing I never cared for on the NH bailer was you had to carry the extra net in the back of the bailer in the 'optional, at additional cost net storage container.

Long gone and glad of it. New Holland produces some very good hay tools but in the case of that bailer, they missed the boat in my opinion.

For me, large squares don't work as my customer is geared for rounds only and so am I. Besides, I got 0 percent from Kubota on the new round bailer and a very good trade in as well. My philosophy is, let the new owner deal with it's issues.

I also had issues with mine and subsequently traded it in for a Kubota 4x5 round bailer. I had constant tracking issues as well and the bailer was a royal PITA to thread net wrap in. My belts would ride the side sheets no matter how I adjusted the tracking, they would always ride to one side or the other and I also had a bearing failure on one of the rolls. The other thing I wasn't keen on was the filling screen on the digital in cab display. Was always wonky. The one thing that really irritated me was the net threading. You had to thread the net in the 'center' of the duckbill assembly and deal with the cutter knife cutting you plus it was always hard to get the net tail centered and the 'stickout' on the net was also touchy. None of that pertains to my new Kubota BV round bailer. Threading the net is easy via a side window, real quick and easy and the Kubota round bailer can carry 4 rolls of net as well as 8 balls of twine and threading twine is easy as well and the Kubota BV round bailer comes standard with a wide pickup so no 'gathering wheels' required. Much better thought out bailer.

One thing I never cared for on the NH bailer was you had to carry the extra net in the back of the bailer in the 'optional, at additional cost net storage container.

Long gone and glad of it. New Holland produces some very good hay tools but in the case of that bailer, they missed the boat in my opinion.

For me, large squares don't work as my customer is geared for rounds only and so am I. Besides, I got 0 percent from Kubota on the new round bailer and a very good trade in as well. My philosophy is, let the new owner deal with it's issues.

 

[5030]

Your Kubota baler is barely "broken in"! My last 2 JD rd balers model 467 had 30,000 bales each showing on monitor. I've experienced only very minor netwrap problems & my balers never had to have a dealer technician look at it.

I do have some issues with hay wrapping the main drive roll but I was at my dealer today and I understand that Kubota id going to foot the bill to have an additional scraper installed under the main drive roll which is what all the newer ones are coming with. Mine is an early production model and Kubota themselves are covering the upgrade, nothing out of my pocket at all. I presume they will do the refit here at the farm or that is what Dennis has implied. Other than that glitch, it runs flawlessly. Like a swiss watch.

All my hay is pre sold this year btw.

 

[Ridersupfarm]

Thank you. Kubota was fairly aggressive with the pricing. I'm going to the dealer next week to make the purchase. Appreciate your comments. The hay we grow is primarily for our farm. We're feeding 22 horses and 2 donkeys. We always have some surplus that pays for the fertilizer, lime etc. Happy rolling.

 

[Hay Dude]

Right, but if you buy a new car and every time you drive down the street it breaks down, I don't expect you to wait until you have 30K miles on it to tell me if you like it or not. My 450 couldn't roll 30 rolls without a breakdown. At this rate it will take me 20 years to get to 10000 bales.

Right, but we’re confusing 2 different, but weighty issues here.

One is whether or not you can call a baler “good” after a few bales. Answer: No you cannot.

The other is whether or not you can rely on a baler that won’t bale from day 1 without problems. Again the answer: No, you cannot.

Same answers, but 2 different scenarios.

IMO, you are doing the right thing by getting rid of a problematic baler. I have had to do that twice.
If I were going back to round baling 2,000 round bales per year, I’d be in a Massey/Hesston or a Deere or Krone or Claas if I had a dealer nearby.

Most Kubota dealer techs are used to working on zero turns & little tractors, not hay equipment. If you cannot fix things yourself or know your way around a round baler, make sure the brand you buy has thorough tech support. You’ll need it

 

[Farmer495]

Most Kubota dealer techs are used to working on zero turns & little tractors, not hay equipment. If you cannot fix things yourself or know your way around a round baler, make sure the brand you buy has thorough tech support. You’ll need it

I agree, support needed if you can't do it yourself. Might be regional, most Kubota dealers around here are full line and very much into the Ag side of it versus the homeowner/grounds care.

Kubota hay equipment has been out a few years and they have been pushing it heavy, keeping in mind it's badge engineered Vicon/Kverneland heritage stuff that has been around for years.

I have one piece of Kubota hay equipment now, very happy with it. I would not hesitate to buy another Kubota hay piece.

 

[Hay Dude]

I agree, support needed if you can't do it yourself. Might be regional, most Kubota dealers around here are full line and very much into the Ag side of it versus the homeowner/grounds care.

Kubota hay equipment has been out a few years and they have been pushing it heavy, keeping in mind it's badge engineered Vicon/Kverneland heritage stuff that has been around for years.

I have one piece of Kubota hay equipment now, very happy with it. I would not hesitate to buy another Kubota hay piece.

A “few years” of hay tool tech service is far removed from decades of farm equipment service.
There ain’t no way in heck a kubota dealer can bring the AG tech support of an AGCO, Deere, or Case-IH dealer.
And I’m a former owner of (2) 125-135HP Kubota farm tractors.

 

[Farmer495]

A “few years” of hay tool tech service is far removed from decades of farm equipment service.
There ain’t no way in heck a kubota dealer can bring the AG tech support of an AGCO, Deere, or Case-IH dealer.
And I’m a former owner of (2) 125-135HP Kubota farm tractors.

Might be regional, at least here almost every Kubota dealer WAS a "mainline" dealer for decades. One was JI Case/New Holland (pre Ford New Holland) then CaseIH/Kuhn and now just Kubota, another chain was International/CaseIH now Kubota, another chain Massey Ferguson/AGCO and Kubota. Again, full line historical ag dealers now selling full line Kubota products, not homeowner/grounds care specialization.

 

[Hay Dude]

Might be regional, at least here almost every Kubota dealer WAS a "mainline" dealer for decades. One was JI Case/New Holland (pre Ford New Holland) then CaseIH/Kuhn and now just Kubota, another chain was International/CaseIH now Kubota, another chain Massey Ferguson/AGCO and Kubota. Again, full line historical ag dealers now selling full line Kubota products, not homeowner/grounds care specialization.

Our Kubota dealers tend to be one of 2 types

1. Stand alone lawn/garden/small hobby farm tractors

2. Paired with a Case-IH dealership (like Hoobers) or New Holland dealership (like Messicks)

 

[Farmer495]

Our Kubota dealers tend to be one of 2 types

1. Stand alone lawn/garden/small hobby farm tractors

2. Paired with a Case-IH dealership (like Hoobers) or New Holland dealership (like Messicks)

The pairing is how almost every Kubota dealer here started. The Kubota business grew so much that they either dropped the "original" brand or branched off to separate orange buildings/business.

One Kubota dealer I use still has all the CaseIH parts manuals and carries some parts even though it's been 15 years since they last had red on the lot.

 

[Ridersupfarm]

Following up on my hay baler issues, as previously posted we returned our 450 Roll Belt baler to the dealer. We settled on a 4160E Kubota round baler, in part based on comments you guys have provided to us, so thank you. The new unit will be delivered next week. When we looked at the 4160 I was impressed with the sturdy construction of the machine. Even the jack is massive. Looking at the respective operator's manuals (450 vs Kubota) I was surprised to see the Kubota weighs almost 2,300 lbs more than the NH. Clearly, Kubota felt that balers should be constructed with substantial materials. From my old hot rod days we always noted that the heavier drive line parts rarely failed, amazing huh? Less flexing, less stress on bearings etc. Makes sense to me. Kubota even has a heavy duty belt separator across the front of the baler and uses extra wide belts. I haven't heard anyone complain about belt tracking issues as we had with the 450. Hay season is about 3-4 weeks away here. We'll report back after the first cut is in.

 

[Hay Dude]

Kubota wisely purchased a reputable round baler company.