From a Kubota B2601 to Kioti CX2510. Am I nuts?

[JurassicJet]

Hello Everyone:

I have been a Kubota owner for quite a few years, starting with a BX2380 and now a B2601. I loved my BX2380 and ended up with about 350 hours on it before selling and upgrading to the B2601. I had 1.5 acres when I owned the BX2380, but now own 22 acres of all woods. I have cut some trails through it with a four-foot bush hog and I also have a gravel driveway that is 450+ ft long that I maintain and keep clear of snow (last year was brutal with the amount of snow we received up here). I also use the tractor for moving cut logs for firewood and all-around chores for a property of that size.

BUT... There are a couple of things that drive me nuts about the B2601.
1.) It has an engine vibration between 1700 and 2200 rpm that drives me nuts. It has been to the dealer twice for it, and the last time they did a thorough check and determined that is normal. I do believe them due to my history with the dealer. So, nothing can be done about it and I need to live with it, or do I?!
2.) The second issue, albeit extremely small, is the rubber on the operator's platform. It is very thin (way thinner than the BX2380) and it scoots around when getting on and off of the tractor.
3.) The SSQA attach points on the loader are easy to "tweak." I actually bent one of mine by trying to get my forks on that were not sitting on level ground. The tube that runs between them is not very robust, IMHO. The Kioti seems to be better built in that regard.
4.) I do not care for the loader control lever placement at all. The BX2380 was significantly better in this regard. The B2601 has this abomination of a lever system that does not feel natural. Along with that, I have a medical condition that limits my ability to turn my head to the left. Therefore, whenever I back up, I turn to the right and therefore swing my legs a little to the right. This results in my right leg hitting the loader control lever as it snakes up from under the seat and along the right fender. This results in the bucket emptying (usually) or going all the way down until I am back dragging the loader bucket, LOL. I need to lock the loader control system if I want to guarantee that will not happen.

So, this prompted me to stop by the local Kioti dealer to check out the CX2501. The first thing is that cab! Did I mention that I am allergic to the cold (no, seriously. I have a condition called cold-induced urticaria. My brother has it too.). It was windy and cold the day that I took the Kioti for a drive, and having that cab was incredible.

But, I do have some concerns. First is the two-speed HST. I use the medium setting on my Kubota a lot. The low on the Kioti might be decent for most of my work, but I found the Kioti gutless in high. That is a concern of mine.
Second, the dealer (salesman) kept referring to a hydraulic leak on these CX2510 that allows the bucket to roll (dump) while the tractor is running. He acted like this was the case for all the new CX2510's. Not sure if it is an issue or not.
The salesman is somewhat of a BS'er, so that really turns me off, but the store manager is very nice and I also personally know the director of sales for all of their stores. He has been a friend of the family for 30+ years and ironically is my SIL's uncle.

They want just a little over $27k for this machine and are allowing $18.5k on my Kubota for trade, which is exactly what I paid for it.

Am I nuts to switch to Kioti? I am a little afraid of going from a very established and well-known brand to a brand that is not so much.

 

[Templecruiser]

I was in a similar boat. I had a JD2025R open station and have the same allergy. But a couple things I didnt like about my 2025r. Lifting compacity was pitiful, even with loaded tires. Would not even lift rear end up or the bucket with a full load. Plus there cab for new was only heat only and was $41K with snowblower. Finally checked out the cx2510 cab, and it was sweet. Has AC, much better lift compacity and a company thats been around. Reviews many seem very happy with them, so I bought one with snowblower for $35,900. The b2601 doesnt offer a cab, and the lx2610 with snowblower I was quoted $46K

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

TYM 3515 has a three range hydro. One reason I bought my 4820 was the 4 range hydro on the larger units

 

[JurassicJet]

TYM 3515 has a three range hydro. One reason I bought my 4820 was the 4 range hydro on the larger units

The two-speed HST transmission is the only concern I really have. That being said, I test-drove one, and the lower range was just fine. I would like to find a real tech sheet spec on both tractors for comparison that would for example compare the top-end speed of the low range on Kioti vs the low and medium on the Kubota.
I am assuming that the top end of the low on the Kioti ends up in the lower mid-range of the Kubota if that makes sense.

 

[Templecruiser]

The two-speed HST transmission is the only concern I really have. That being said, I test-drove one, and the lower range was just fine. I would like to find a real tech sheet spec on both tractors for comparison that would for example compare the top-end speed of the low range on Kioti vs the low and medium on the Kubota.
I am assuming that the top end of the low on the Kioti ends up in the lower mid-range of the Kubota if that makes sense.

If your up to 22ac now, for a little over $3500 more, I would snag a ck2620. It's got your 3 speed hst, huge lifting compacity, and still cheaper then the much smaller lx2610.

 

[tacticalturnip]

If it'll work for you, for sure, check out the CK2610SE/2620SE.

 

[js5020]

The two-speed HST transmission is the only concern I really have. That being said, I test-drove one, and the lower range was just fine. I would like to find a real tech sheet spec on both tractors for comparison that would for example compare the top-end speed of the low range on Kioti vs the low and medium on the Kubota.
I am assuming that the top end of the low on the Kioti ends up in the lower mid-range of the Kubota if that makes sense.

According to the owners manual hydro low range 0-4.455 mph forward, 0-3.120 reverse @2600 rpm. High range 0-12.545 mph forward, 0-8.780 mph reverse @ 2600 rpm. I test drove a CK model with the 3 range hydro and came to the conclusion that low range was kinda like my old gear drive machine, a creeper range that I rarely use so not necessary. Weight of the machine cab model 2804lbs, bare tractor from the manual. Add a loader, rear ballast and an attachment and the machine can easily approach 4000 lbs working weight. The hydraulic issue the salesman spoke of is called drift, and from experience both the loader and 3 pth will drift down over time, its not objectionable to me. The only complaint I have with the CX is the steering wheel height, is to low for my preferences.

 

[JurassicJet]

According to the owners manual hydro low range 0-4.455 mph forward, 0-3.120 reverse @2600 rpm. High range 0-12.545 mph forward, 0-8.780 mph reverse @ 2600 rpm. I test drove a CK model with the 3 range hydro and came to the conclusion that low range was kinda like my old gear drive machine, a creeper range that I rarely use so not necessary. Weight of the machine cab model 2804lbs, bare tractor from the manual. Add a loader, rear ballast and an attachment and the machine can easily approach 4000 lbs working weight. The hydraulic issue the salesman spoke of is called drift, and from experience both the loader and 3 pth will drift down over time, its not objectionable to me. The only complaint I have with the CX is the steering wheel height, is to low for my preferences.

Thank you for that data point.
My Kubota is one mph slower in the Low range but one mph faster in mid-range. Basically, it splits the difference. I believe that I would be fine with the low on the Kioti.
This has actually become somewhat of a moot point because I committed to buy the CX2510 with a cab this morning.

Cripes, I hope I am not nuts.

 

[JurassicJet]

One other thing that I should mention...
The store manager came out to my house today and spent two hours BS about equipment and etc. He answered all of my questions and concerns with straightforward candor that appealed to me. Parts availability was addressed and by the sounds of it, that is a non-issue.

 

[MaxLee]

Hello Everyone:

I have been a Kubota owner for quite a few years, starting with a BX2380 and now a B2601. I loved my BX2380 and ended up with about 350 hours on it before selling and upgrading to the B2601. I had 1.5 acres when I owned the BX2380, but now own 22 acres of all woods. I have cut some trails through it with a four-foot bush hog and I also have a gravel driveway that is 450+ ft long that I maintain and keep clear of snow (last year was brutal with the amount of snow we received up here). I also use the tractor for moving cut logs for firewood and all-around chores for a property of that size.

BUT... There are a couple of things that drive me nuts about the B2601.
1.) It has an engine vibration between 1700 and 2200 rpm that drives me nuts. It has been to the dealer twice for it, and the last time they did a thorough check and determined that is normal. I do believe them due to my history with the dealer. So, nothing can be done about it and I need to live with it, or do I?!
2.) The second issue, albeit extremely small, is the rubber on the operator's platform. It is very thin (way thinner than the BX2380) and it scoots around when getting on and off of the tractor.
3.) The SSQA attach points on the loader are easy to "tweak." I actually bent one of mine by trying to get my forks on that were not sitting on level ground. The tube that runs between them is not very robust, IMHO. The Kioti seems to be better built in that regard.
4.) I do not care for the loader control lever placement at all. The BX2380 was significantly better in this regard. The B2601 has this abomination of a lever system that does not feel natural. Along with that, I have a medical condition that limits my ability to turn my head to the left. Therefore, whenever I back up, I turn to the right and therefore swing my legs a little to the right. This results in my right leg hitting the loader control lever as it snakes up from under the seat and along the right fender. This results in the bucket emptying (usually) or going all the way down until I am back dragging the loader bucket, LOL. I need to lock the loader control system if I want to guarantee that will not happen.

So, this prompted me to stop by the local Kioti dealer to check out the CX2501. The first thing is that cab! Did I mention that I am allergic to the cold (no, seriously. I have a condition called cold-induced urticaria. My brother has it too.). It was windy and cold the day that I took the Kioti for a drive, and having that cab was incredible.

But, I do have some concerns. First is the two-speed HST. I use the medium setting on my Kubota a lot. The low on the Kioti might be decent for most of my work, but I found the Kioti gutless in high. That is a concern of mine.
Second, the dealer (salesman) kept referring to a hydraulic leak on these CX2510 that allows the bucket to roll (dump) while the tractor is running. He acted like this was the case for all the new CX2510's. Not sure if it is an issue or not.
The salesman is somewhat of a BS'er, so that really turns me off, but the store manager is very nice and I also personally know the director of sales for all of their stores. He has been a friend of the family for 30+ years and ironically is my SIL's uncle.

They want just a little over $27k for this machine and are allowing $18.5k on my Kubota for trade, which is exactly what I paid for it.

Am I nuts to switch to Kioti? I am a little afraid of going from a very established and well-known brand to a brand that is not so much.

Not nuts switch to Kioti... but I would look into the CK2620 , 3 ramge hyd, better lifting and much bigger framed tractor. Comes in cab also and still much cheaper then the others you been looking at

 

[Robin Veerman]

Yeppers I agree…..but he’s already bought the CX25…..but maybe there’s still time to switch before it gets delivered?

 

[tacticalturnip]

I think he'll be quite happy with the CX, and I hope we see pictures when it arrives. That said, I'll always recommend the CK; I've just been so impressed with my 2610 that I can't help it.

 

[5030]

Like I've said numerous times before, I'm not brand loyal at all, I'm dealer loyal always. A good and nearby dealer can and will make all the difference and in my case it's a Kubota dealer so I run Kubota tractors. Heck, they even deliver consumables like filters right to the farm, no charge for delivery and if one of my units needs to go in for something, I just drive up to the dealer and grab one of his roll back trucks and pick it up and take it there. What could be easier than that. I do put diesel in it as a courtesy thing however.

 

[JurassicJet]

Yeppers I agree…..but he’s already bought the CX25…..but maybe there’s still time to switch before it gets delivered?

There probably is, but I really don't want to do that. I feel that the CX is going to be the perfect size for me, especially since the B2601 has served my needs so far. I do realize that the CK is a lot more tractor for not a lot more money, but one can keep rationalizing that argument until you end up with a Case/Steiger 475

I am supposed to get my tractor next week. The dealer- or should I say salesman- has been absolutely atrocious. The sales guy told me 10 days ago that my tractor was ready, yet when I talked to their mechanic on Monday, he said he didn't know if he should put the third function on. Ummm, yes, yes, you should. I did talk to the store manager yesterday, and he was very apologetic and understood my concerns. But man, that sales guy. He oozes machismo and arrogance. He is a "retired" cop, although I wonder if he actually "retired," or "was retired." I told the manager that they needed to get rid of him, which he actually agreed.
So, my foray into the Kioti family has not been great so far, but I believe that it is because of the one POS salesman. My conversation with the mechanic on Monday was positive, so I am holding out hope that this situation improves.

 

[js5020]

Meh, don't let a poor salesman frazzle you, I had a similar experience when shopping this go round also. Both the Kubota and Kioti sales people were extremely sub par, but both dealerships as a whole from experience are solid as are their machines.

 

[5030]

But man, that sales guy. He oozes machismo and arrogance. He is a "retired" cop, although I wonder if he actually "retired," or "was retired." I told the manager that they needed to get rid of him, which he actually agreed.

If the drummer is selling units and if that is putting money in the owner's till, why get rid of him. All about revenue and little else actually. One thing I learned long ago with retail sales is a manager agreeing with a customer means little to nothing because it's all about 'appeasing' the customer and then forgetting about it the second that customer walks out the door.

 

[JurassicJet]

If the drummer is selling units and if that is putting money in the owner's till, why get rid of him. All about revenue and little else actually. One thing I learned long ago with retail sales is a manager agreeing with a customer means little to nothing because it's all about 'appeasing' the customer and then forgetting about it the second that customer walks out the door.

To a point, I agree. However, this Kioti dealer could put a lot more money in the owner's pocket if they had a decent sales guy. They are moving into a new building and a new location right on the main drag so they are committed to growing, but that will be difficult with the current personnel.
I paid for my tractor 11 days ago. Haven't heard a peep from the sales guy. Right now, I would like to be appeased.

 

[5030]

At my age, appeasement is optional, especially when dealing with my Kubota dealer but then I do work for him part time so I keep my mouth shut about a lot of things.

He's been wanting me to sell tractors for a long time but he does just fine all by himself. He operates under the philosophy that if you want a new (or used) Kubota, fine with him and he never upsells anything, but then he's been in business for over 40 years and has a large following of customers anyway.

Far as I'm concerned, Kubota tractors sell themselves, at least around here they do in the small unit arena.

Last week he sold no less than 7 units and I bet he did very little to no promoting or upselling either.

That means I get to deliver them at some point and instruct the new owners on the 'care and feeding' of them as well.

First thing they get is the owners manual and I instruct them to read it and not file it away somewhere, then I have them actually get on a unit, start it and operate it with me watching and when I'm satisfied they have at least a basic understanding of the operating principles, they get the release form which they have to sign and I'm on my way, with possibly a trade in on the rollback.

My dealer sells a ton of used traded in tractors as well and everyone goes through the shop to make sure there are no major issues.

I have a Kubota F20 series front mount diesel powered mower coming in on trade that I have already reserved for me. I'll have the shop go entirely through it and replace or repair any issues, including new blades, change all the fluids (I have very little hands on experience with hydrostatic drives), grease it and make sure it's 100% lawn ready. It's a trade in from the county fair board btw. 2 wheel drive with a 70" front mount mower. I don't need a 4wd, it's flat here.

He actually has 2 of them used, on the front lot but won't sell me either one because both have the 'reformer' engines in them and that particular engine is a time bomb and he gets to deal with me personally and I'm sure he don't have any desire to hear me whine about anything.

Trading in my Cub Cadet 60" tank ZTR. I really like a ZTR but with a lot of trees to mow under, a mid mount deck is a real disadvantage for me. I want a mower I can get under the trees with, without poking myself with branches all the time.

Limited choices in that respect. Has to be either a Grass Hopper or the Kubota and has to be a diesel as well. Grass Hopper uses the Kubota diesel and transmission in their diesel powered mowers so my take is, why buy a Grass Hopper when I can buy the genuine article and it has to be used (and hopefully not too abused) as I really cannot afford a new one, just to mow lawns with.

 

[JurassicJet]

Following up on this thread. I did purchase and take delivery of a new CX2510. It took longer than it should have because the sales dude was incapable of following through with anything.
For the most part, I am extremely happy with it. It seems that it is built very well and it feels larger than it really is. I love the sound of the engine, and no vibrations like my Kubota had. The cab is incredible, especially with the weather turning colder here. I plan on starting a thread highlighting the differences between the two, so that others may have a data point.
I did have a little oopsie with it already at the 4-hour mark. I might start a thread about that too.

 

[Templecruiser]

Following up on this thread. I did purchase and take delivery of a new CX2510. It took longer than it should have because the sales dude was incapable of following through with anything.
For the most part, I am extremely happy with it. It seems that it is built very well and it feels larger than it really is. I love the sound of the engine, and no vibrations like my Kubota had. The cab is incredible, especially with the weather turning colder here. I plan on starting a thread highlighting the differences between the two, so that others may have a data point.
I did have a little oopsie with it already at the 4-hour mark. I might start a thread about that too.

Nice, I'm supposed to get mine tomorrow or Wednesday. Can't wait.