4wd

   / 4wd #1  

Kitz

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
190
Location
anywhere usa
Tractor
IH 244
Hi yall i have a 4x4 caseih 75c with cab. my question is when i am in 2wd and put on brake it turns on 4x4 if i am on a incline even a slight one it will disengage hard when i release brake kind of like the brakes stick and let lose. if i am on a level area it does it once in a while if i have it in 4x4 all the time it is fine anyone have a idea what it might be thanks Rick
 
   / 4wd #2  
Rick, what you are describing is 4WD braking. When you have it in 2WD, you only have braking on the rear tires. When you press down on both brakes, it turns on the 4WD to add the front tires for extra traction/braking.
As far as the incline goes, it is disengaging the 4WD while under load from the incline giving it the lurch. That tractor has a dog clutch for the 4WD, so it is pretty positive on/off.
 
   / 4wd #4  
Meh… I want my 4 wd to be ON when I turn it on, and OFF when I turn it off.
Every situation is different, but the ā€œwe know better than youā€ / ā€œWE’LL decide when to turn 4wd onā€ nanny attitude isn’t always the best for your safety, or equipment longevity in 100% of all situations.

Example: Anti-lock brakes on ice are often more dangerous because they often INCREASE required stopping distance required.
 
   / 4wd #5  
Hi yall i have a 4x4 caseih 75c with cab. my question is when i am in 2wd and put on brake it turns on 4x4 if i am on a incline even a slight one it will disengage hard when i release brake kind of like the brakes stick and let lose. if i am on a level area it does it once in a while if i have it in 4x4 all the time it is fine anyone have a idea what it might be thanks Rick
I have this feature on my New holland and I love it. From time to time I will put out hay one bale at a time and always use the loader to transport. I have several gates that the approach is a steep angle, since I have all the weight on the loader spear my rears are light on the ground contact when I stop. I set the parking break and it engages 4wd and the front tires are locked and I dont worry as much about the tractor rolling away when i dismount to open the gate.
 
   / 4wd #6  
Many of the mid sized and up IH and New Holland tractors use the hydraulics to disengage the 4wd, when you switch to 2wd it disengages the front axle drive . It is a good system in that when the tractor is shut off it's in 4wd.
The 4wd coming on with the brakes is also very common, if you don't want it to engage you can just use one brake pedal.
It will not activate when just one brake is used.
 
   / 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Rick, what you are describing is 4WD braking. When you have it in 2WD, you only have braking on the rear tires. When you press down on both brakes, it turns on the 4WD to add the front tires for extra traction/braking.
As far as the incline goes, it is disengaging the 4WD while under load from the incline giving it the lurch. That tractor has a dog clutch for the 4WD, so it is pretty positive on/off.
i realize that the 4wd comes on when you brake i can understand that there can be alot of weight to stop its just when it releases it clunks real hard i would think it would be alittle smoother kinda concerned about breaking something
 
   / 4wd #8  
It could be your lead lag on the tires is a bit off that will make for more wind up and bang or lurch when disengaging.
Have you checked out how much lead or lag you are actually getting with tires at your operating pressures.
 
   / 4wd #9  
Example: Anti-lock brakes on ice are often more dangerous because they often INCREASE required stopping distance required.
Except that, the average driver doesn't know how to use the brakes on ice, most just jam them on.

Anti-locks work MUCH better for the "average" driver, they are much better off with them.

SR
 
   / 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#10  
It could be your lead lag on the tires is a bit off that will make for more wind up and bang or lurch when disengaging.
Have you checked out how much lead or lag you are actually getting with tires at your operating pressures.
Dont want to sound to dumb but what is lead lag
 
   / 4wd #11  
from google: "...It is directly related to the transmission interaxle ratio and the size of the tires. The value is expressed in percentage and a positive value (Lead) means that the front axle will cover more distance than the rear. A negative value (lag) will mean that the rear tires will be pushing the front slower tires...."

It's trying to get as close to equal; the distance travel of the front and rear tires to match the spinning of the transmission (both front axle and rear axle) to coincide with the tire rotation. So that everything spins without binding up.

Fine and easy going straight but make a turn things can not spin the same since outer wheels cover more distance.
 
   / 4wd #12  
from google: "...It is directly related to the transmission interaxle ratio and the size of the tires. The value is expressed in percentage and a positive value (Lead) means that the front axle will cover more distance than the rear. A negative value (lag) will mean that the rear tires will be pushing the front slower tires...."

It's trying to get as close to equal; the distance travel of the front and rear tires to match the spinning of the transmission (both front axle and rear axle) to coincide with the tire rotation.
AND if we want to use the proper "tractor" terminology, the OP has a MFWD tractor, NOT a 4WD, as 4WD's have the same size tires all around.

SR
 
   / 4wd #13  
Last time I checked, at least on tractors... it's not 4 wheel drive but Front Wheel Assist. and if you don't have front axle locker, it's never 4wd anyway as only ONE front wheel will drive.:rolleyes:
 
   / 4wd #14  
Additionally, the incorrect 'Lead-lag' ratio will eventually destroy the front end components from excessive load.
 
   / 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#15  
AND if we want to use the proper "tractor" terminology, the OP has a MFWD tractor, NOT a 4WD, as 4WD's have the same size tires all around.

SR
Since we are getting technical should i go back and change my post since people dont know what i am talking about
 
   / 4wd #16  
Since we are getting technical should i go back and change my post since people dont know what i am talking about
Definitely "off the rails". This was about the harsh transition when the brakes were released I believe šŸ˜‚
 
   / 4wd #18  
The lead/ lag is the distance that your tires cover while traveling.
There is a gear ratio between the front and rear axles to compensate for the different tire sizes front to rear.
There is a lot of information and a really large amount of disinformation out and about.

Whoopee do, it's been terminologied to death :)
AND if we want to use the proper "tractor" terminology, the OP has a MFWD tractor, NOT a 4WD, as 4WD's have the same size tires all around.

SR

Complete and utter bull, drive is determined by the number of axles receiving power not how they perform once the torque is applied, both wheels will always receive the same amount of torque.
Last time I checked, at least on tractors... it's not 4 wheel drive but Front Wheel Assist. and if you don't have front axle locker, it's never 4wd anyway as only ONE front wheel will drive.:rolleyes:

It is possible depending upon the loading and the traction available, it rarely happens unless the vehicle in question is operated extensively on high traction surfaces ( pavement/concrete while heavily loaded and in 4wd)
Additionally, the incorrect 'Lead-lag' ratio will eventually destroy the front end components from excessive load.

Your lead/lag is determined by the gearing in your tractor. It is hopefully just a bit of lead from the front tires while in 4wd. Meaning the front tires are covering just a bit more ground travel then the rears at the same time.
There are a few ways to determine how much you are leading/lagging.

1) with your tractor in 4wd on a level smooth surface, preferably not paved
Mark the rear tire and the ground in the center of the ground contact area of the tire, also mark the front tire and ground.
Now drive the tractor in a straight line at least one complete revolution of the rear tire and countthe number of revolutions of your front tire. While one revolution of the rear will work more are better.
2) now look carefully at the tire tread marks in the ground,
you should be able to see if the front tires are being pushed by the rears from how the tread marking is disturbed from perfect.
Is the dirt scoffed to the front of the tread impressions; lagging.
Or does it look like the front tire was trying to spin is the dirt pulled to the rear of the front tire tread marks; leading

3) Now vary your tire pressure and repeat until you see the fronts are just leading the rears.

The main factor under your control in requards to lead/lag is the loaded radius ( or loaded circumference) of your tires.
The unloaded, unmounted tire height is almost useless information, the unmounted unloaded tire diameter is also useless.
The loaded radius from the axle centerline to the ground is the most important measurement and the one that is the most varied by the air pressure you run and load on the tires.

AS an alternative drive the tractor in 2wd to a starting, engage 4wd and drive in a straight line, stop and attempt to disengage 4wd back to 2wd and see how much your tractor jumps and in which direction.
If it jumps forward the front tires were quite likely lagging, if it jumps rearward they were likely leading.

Depending on the method used then start varying the tire pressure.
If you feel the fronts are leading too much, lower the front tire air pressure or increase the rear tire pressure. Then repeat too see if the scuffing or jumping is better or worse. If better determine if those tire pressures will work in your application.

Go to your tire manufactures website and find the pressure to weight loading chart for your tires. Then determine the loading of each pair of tires. Air pressure above the required amount for the load being carried results in less traction, faster wear and decreased ride comfort. Air pressure below the required amount will result in excessive sidewall flexing and possibly tearing.
None of those pressures will likely be in your owners manual and they will not be on the tire sidewall. The number on the sidewall will be the maximum pressure the tire is desighned for to be able to carry the maximum load the tire is rated for.

Another method if you have a front end loader on your tractor is to drive straight in 4wd, stop and lower your loader to raise the front tires off the ground while holding the brakes and see what the front tires do. If they turn forward as the weight is removed they were lagging if rearward they were leading, again vary your air pressure and repeat till you achieve a slight leading condition.

My preference is to drive in dirt that will take a tire tread mark and observe the leading and trailing edges of the tread marks to determine which tire is being pulled or pushed.
Unfortunately the correct tire pressure to achieve the correct lead will change with every different load applied to the tractor,
an empty bucket loader compared to a full bucket. An empty three point hitch compared to a heavy load carried and used while supported and off the ground. A heavy drawbar load from a trailed implement. So the best is a comprimise that works for you most common loading or most critical one.
When I can engage and disengage 4wd with minimal felt effect it's good.
While driving you can play around with the 4wd, if engaging it seems to slow your tractor down you are likely lagging, if it feels like your tractor speeds up when engaged it is likely leading.

One thing not discussed here yet is trying to determine the gear ratio between the front and rear axles.
In 2wd mark the center of the tire and the ground for the rear wheel and the front wheel, drive forward a few revolutions, count the number of front wheel revolutions to the number of rear wheel revolutions this will give you the actual ratio of front to rear which could be compared to the manufactures specified gear ratio if known. If the tire loaded radius are the ones the manufacture used when determining the gear ration you would be close to the mechanical gear ratio. Depending on the designed lead percentage.
 

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