Hydraulic winch won't push out cable

[BWSwede]

Hello hydraulic experts,

I am hoping one of the gurus on the forum can help me undstand what is going on with the winch on my log splitter. This is a new piece of equipment I just purchased. The manufacturer is on summer holiday and is shutdown for 2 weeks.

The way the winch is suppose to work is either pull the cable in, lock the drum, or push cable out. There is no free-wheel. The valve is the manual, spring centered, 3 position type. There are 4 ports in use, pump, tank, and winch supply and return.

When I first got the winch I could not get the winch to respond at all to the directional control valve. Then I found a hand adjustment knob on an upstream device that appears to set how much oil the winch receives, thereby setting its speed. When I opened the flow control valve slightly, and moved the lever on the directional control valve to the cable pull position I could feel the cable get tensioned. However, I cannot get the valve to push the cable out. I have tried pulling it out with the directional control valve in the cable extend position and I have checked for cable binding on the drum. Unfortunately no luck.

What is interesting is that when I set the DCV in the cable extend position I can hear a drag on the tractor's engine. I know next to nothing about hydraulics but this leads me to believe there is a check valve or some sort of load control feature that is not letting the fluid flow.

If this means anything to anyone, the number on the valve is: Z50 / 4103630 / M / 22.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on? I am hoping there is an adjustment somewhere that will get me on my way.


TIA,
BWSwede

 

[oldnslo]

Bw
Did you get any schematic with this machine?

If not trace the hoses from the directional control valve to the winch motor. Does one both hoses flex at the motor when trying to push cable out of the winch?

Curious on flow control for the winch motor. Depending on style it may or may not have reverse flow feature. Is there any name or model code on that valve?

Pictures of components may also help.

 

[BWSwede]

odlnslo - Thanks for your reply.

I have tried moving the valve in the other direction and when I do the drum does not move but I can hear a slight drag on the tractor's engine. This tells me the valve is trying to push fluid in the correct direction but for some reason it is being blocked.

There is nothing between the valve and the hydraulic motor but two hoses. I am a novice, but if I had to guess, I think there is something going on in the valve, either on the supply or the return side. From what I can tell, there is something that is only allowing the oil to flow in one direction.

Any other ideas?

Thanks again,
BWSwede

 

[ptsg]

Can you share the make and model of the splitter? Maybe someone can find a little bit more info.

The Z50 indicates that the DCV is made by Badesnost. Here is a bit more info on the valve: BADESHTNOST Plc. - Hydraulic products, valves, > PRODUCTS

 

[BWSwede]

Here is a picture of the valve.

 

[BWSwede]

ptsg,

Thanks for the valve information, I'll look into it.

The splitter is a Uniforest 27 CD with an 8 HM hydraulic winch.

BWSwede

 

[ericm979]

That's an interesting wood splitter.

You could try asking one of the US importers: Max Forestry in Colorado and Hud-Son back east. They're both helpful. Or your dealer if you bought it from a dealer.

 

[BWSwede]

Eric,

Before purchasing the splitter I contacted Hud-Son (largest Uniforest dealer in North America) to see if I could purchase from them. They said they don't sell that product, but if I wanted one they could probably order one for me. They said they weren't placing their next order for at least 6 months and that it would be at least another 6 months before they received anything. I didn't want to wait that long so I contacted a retailer in Austria and purchased it from them.

I have contacted them about my issue and they sent me an owner's manual for the winch, which didn't help at all. I contacted them two more times and my emails have gone unanswered. I don't think they know what the issue is and don't want to admit it.

Thanks for your suggestions.

BWSwede

 

[ptsg]

I'm wondering if this could be a linkage issue/adjustment. Does the valve moves all the way to the end of its stroke in both directions?

 

[BWSwede]

I thought the lever moved the full stroke, but maybe it is being restricted somehow. Easy to check.

Not to loss track of the fact I can hear the tractor engine being pulled down slightly when the lever is moved out of the neutral position. This seems to me to indicate the lever is moving the spool into an active position.

Thanks,
BWSwede

 

[oldnslo]

If lugging engine could be moving spool enough to restrict flow but not enough to allow flow to and from the motor. That is why I asked if the hoses to the motor are flexing or stiffening when you operate the feed out option.

Quick check on spool travel with machine off measure spool movement from center in both directions. Should be similar both ways.

 

[BWSwede]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining. I'll take a look and report back.

Thank you,
BWSwede

 

[ericm979]

I have contacted them about my issue and they sent me an owner's manual for the winch, which didn't help at all. I contacted them two more times and my emails have gone unanswered. I don't think they know what the issue is and don't want to admit it.

If Hud-Son doesn't sell them then Max probably doesn't either. They're smaller.

The manual for my Uniforest 35M forestry winch reads like it was translated from Slovenian into French and then German before being translated into English. It's not the worst manual I have seen but it's not all that useful either.

You could try reversing the hoses between the valve and motor. If it can then unwind the cable the problem is the valve. If it doesn't, then it's probably not the valve. Another check would be to disconnect the hoses and try to pull the cable out by hand. It seems like if the motor and winch drum are free to turn you should be able to pull it by hand. But a blockage of the hoses might prevent that.

Could you post a pic of the restrictor valve?

 

[BWSwede]

oldnslo - I checked the movement of the lever and it definitely is equal both directions and has full range of movement.

Next, instead of looking for movement in the hoses, I disconnected the fittings and then engaged the DCV. As soon as I did oil squirted out of the loosened fitting. This tells me oil is being sent to the motor via both hoses depending on the position of the valve.

eric - Thanks for the suggestion. I reversed the hoses at the winch motor and the winch pulled the slack out of the cable when I had the DCV in the normal extend position, and when I put the valve in the normal retract position nothing happened other than hearing a subtle noise coming from the DCV.

I then disconnected both hoses from the motor and hung 200 pounds from the cable and it didn't budge. It appears that the motor only wants to turn in one direction. And to clarify, it is a direct drive from the motor to the winch drum, not a worm drive where the geometry won't let you pull out a cable.

Picture of the restrictor valve attached.

To the best of my knowledge the supply enters the right side, the knob at the bottom controls the flow to the hose coming out the left side which goes to the winch valve, the large hose coming out of the top is the continuous return, the hose going into the bottom of the "T" at the top is the intermittent return line from the winch valve. The two hoses with fittings pointed downward at the far right are the supply and return out of the motor.

Do you guys have any other suggestions for me?

Thank you for all the help so far.

BWSwede

 

[BWSwede]

To close out this thread.

I found the problem.

I purchased the splitter from a retailer. I also asked to purchase a winch for this splitter. They didn't have one in stock so they ordered one from the manufacturer. The retailer installed the winch. After they installed the winch they reattached the splitter's cover panels. One of the screws they installed was too long and was driven into the side of the winch drum, thereby locking it in place.

Once I backed out the screw, the winch started operating as it should.

Thank you all for your assistance in helping me find the issue.

BWSwede

 

[ericm979]

Thanks for reporting the resolution. I'd be curious how the splitter performs and why you went with that model. But maybe that'd be better done in a different thread.

 

[dfkrug]

The Z50 indicates that the DCV is made by Badesnost. Here is a bit more info on the valve: BADESHTNOST Plc. - Hydraulic products, valves, > PRODUCTS

I just found out that my 6-spool backhoe stack valve is also made by Badestnost of Bulgaria.

Never heard of them until yesterday.

 

[ptsg]

I just found out that my 6-spool backhoe stack valve is also made by Badestnost of Bulgaria.

Never heard of them until yesterday.

They're a big hydraulic component manufacturer in Bulgaria and sell to a lot of places that are then rebadged. Not very expensive either and good quality. Most of the valves sold by Summit hydraulics, are Badestnost valves rebadged to Summit.

Most of my hydraulic projects uses their valve. My backhoe has 4 spool valve with very minimal leakage even after 1000 hours+ of work.

 

[dfkrug]

Most of my hydraulic projects uses their valve. My backhoe has 4 spool valve with very minimal leakage even after 1000 hours+ of work.

Interesting.

My backhoe also comes from Bulgaria, so it makes sense. Multiple O-rings between the sections have been leaking for years. About 200h on the hoe, but it is about 15yo.

 

[Lstlk2hi]

It may be as simple as fouled cable on the drum. Hook cable on a sturdy tree. Back up real slow and easy until you feel resistance. Get out and look for the issue. As to they hydraulic controls I'm clueless. Any powered winch has a way to freewheel. It may be a setting or a notch that fits into cogs on the winch roller/power drive.