TruFuel 50-1or Stihl 50-1 or Red Armor 50-1??

[shooterdon]

After reading this thread I bought 6 cans of TruFuel for $40:

TruFuel 50:1 Pre Mixed Fuel Portable Design Steel Cans 2-Cycle Oil (6-Pack) | eBay

The container closure is made from proprietary resin to maximize safety & durability. Premixed and ready to use formula with synthetic oil, a fuel stabilizer and ethanol-free gasoline.

www.ebay.com

I have been having issues with my Husqvarna 570 backpack blower so figured it would be a good test. It has been running like crap especially in the winter. Yesterday was 15 degrees and I needed to blow some snow. Poured a can into the tank. The tank was still 1/4 full of old fuel.

What a difference. I am sold on the stuff.

Cost of mixing my own is about $4 for gas, $.50 for Stabil and $2.50 for oil. $8/gal

Cost of this stuff is $27/gal. So more than three times the cost.

Most of the time I am not running the blower for more than 20-30 minutes so the savings of mixing my own are not significant. If I have a fall clean up to do, that lasts 2-3 hours, I will likely mix a batch up. Same for the chainsaw. If I am taking care of a downed tree, the pre-mix makes sense. If cutting a lot of firewood, mixing my own makes sense.

 

[Tchamp]

There is a app called pure gas that gives you locations to fill up with non ethanol gas, used it all the time when traveling with my motorcycle.

 

[Yander]

I've been using true fuel I bought at Lowe's for about 3 years. I love it.

I don't cut a lot of wood mostly just wood for burning in the backyard so I don't use the saw but three or four times a year.

No more worrying about the carb getting gummed up from ethanol gas.

 

[Todd727]

Do keep in mind that leaning the mix out can and will cause scoring of the cylinder walls. I'd not exceed 50-1 under any circumstances.

Adding more oil actually leans out the air-fuel mixture if you don't make carb adjustments.

 

[A-P]

I use Tru fuel, they sell it here at Tractor Supply or some automotive places. Works well.
I also use the Husqvarna pre-mix. My saws can't tell the difference, or at least I can't tell the difference.
I use the non-mix for the splitter and it likes it much better than e-gas from the pump.
If I run regular e-gas in the mower I will run the last tank of the season with non ethanol gas.
E-gas gums up the carburetor otherwise. Its all expensive, but I can work when I have time without any fuss.
Now I concentrate on keeping the blades sharp and an annual tune up and that's it. Priceless.

 

[John_Mc]

One thing that video dont show.
Always tune your OPE to your mix and ratio run period. Oils are different and gas is different. Tune to what you run.
Heck tune can change in same day for those that pay attention to such stuff because of weather from morning to evening.
But I am guessing most folks have no clue how to tune and why they run as is. Also why they come out with AT MT and Injection IMHO.

Learn your OPE and the H L I and how to tune.

I agree 100%. I can't comment on whether TruFuel is good stuff or not, since I've never used it. I've seen that video before, and frankly I'm a bit disgusted with it. For someone who professes to be a mechanic, she should know that you can't just dump in a different fuel and fire it up and claim to be testing the fuel. The saw needs to be tuned to the fuel it is using. With the newer auto-tune saws, this is not an issue, as long as you run the saw enough to let it adjust for the new fuel - but those blowers were not auto-tune.) I suspect that the blower that lost all those RPMs on the high end was just running rich.

Great reply! Is there a video you can recommend for that subject?

One of the best descriptions on tuning saws is at the Madsen's web site. Try this link:

Chainsaw Tips & Tricks | Madsen's Shop

Madsen's specializes in serving professional chain saw users. If you make your living with a chain saw -- or just want the kind of tools or garments used by some of the hardest working people on the planet, Madsen's is for you.

www.madsens1.com

Then click on the saw tuning link in the right hand column. It's a good text description, and they have some good audio files so you can hear what it sounds like when tuned to various conditions. You'll need good speakers or headphones to hear the sound clearly. Many laptops or tablet/phone speakers are just not good enough to hear things clearly in these audio files.

Note when tuning:
Do not run the saw for extended periods at full throttle under no load.

I prefer tuning by ear to tuning with a tachometer. When I was first learning, I would tune by ear, then check with a tach just to verify where I was. Madsen's method has you setting the high mixture with the saw out of the wood. Their method does work well, but some newer saws (but not so new as to have auto-tune) have a rev-limited coil. When the saw hit the rev limit, the noise it makes can be confused with the burble that a saw makes when running just slightly rich. Since hitting the rev limit can be an indication that the saw is adjusted too lean, someone who confuses the two can damage their saw by running it too lean. It's very important to make sure the burble you hear is coming from the saw being slightly rich - a saw running rich is generally below it's rev limit. Then slowly tweak it leaner until the sound just "cleans up" at full throttle. richen it slightly till the burble comes back then try cutting some wood: the saw should burble slightly at full throttle out of the wood, and clean up as you start to cut.

If you like videos, there are a lot of good ones out there. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of bad ones out there. This one is good. He uses a similar procedure as the Madsen's one but is doing his high speed tests mostly in the wood, then easing off the pressure on the saw to listen for the burble. By testing in the wood, the RPMS drop well below the rev limit, so he avoids any confusion. He still has the saw set slightly rich for my taste: he has to put a bit of pressure in it for the sound to "clean up" under load. However, he mentions that he is doing that intentionally ince the saw is breaking in. I bookmarked this video because he gives a decent description and because the sound is clear enough to easily hear the burble at full throttle that he and Madsen's talk about,

 

[boatmoter]

What is the best and experience? I got a gallon of Red Armor. We have e-gas here and it's terrible. Not cheap but is it worth it??? Im a retired ASE master automotive tech. when they came out with the Ethanol fuel I seen it was going to be a huge problem,not only does it eat up a regular steel exhaust system,you will lose around 9 miles to the gallon using it. it also will clog an injector up after running it for years. unless you have the flex fuel system on your car,not many come with that. it will ruin the carb's on small engines. so I always use non Ethanol in all my small engines. if you do not have that option,use the recommended amount of seafoam in every tank full

 

[John_Mc]

Others have mentioned the pure-gas website. I's a great resource for finding non-ethanol gas. It is user-maintained, so it relies on users keeping things up to date. If you find a gas station with non-ethanol available, please add it. If one listed no longer carries it, please update the description or delete the station from the list.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

NOTE: if you leave out the "-" in the name and just use puregas dot org, it takes you to a different web site that prompts you to download an app. There is no "cancel" button. This makes me suspicious that it is a malware site trying to get you to download something you don't want on your computer or smartphone. I can't be sure, but I'm not about to click on it to find out. I just closed the tab.

 

[2manyrocks]

There are some youtube videos showing how to remove ethanol from gas. Would this make better sense for someone who lives in an area where the only gas for sale has ethanol in it ?

 

[redmt]

VP 50-1 I run it in all my 2 strokes. No issues, no problems, never a hard start, stores well for a couple years if needed. I buy 5 gallon cans. Expensive but worth the expense .

 

[bmg88201]

Non ethanol 91 octane is everywhere up around me due to being near two rivers and a huge lake. Since most outboards need non ethanol fuel. Won’t use anything else in a two cycle engine. I also use Red Armor oil in my Echo trimmer and Husky chainsaw. The local small engine guy swears by Red Armor oil. I can’t imagine having to settle for ethanol fuel. That would frustrate me to no end.

 

[organ grinder]

There’s an old saying which suggests that experience is a good teacher, but she gives the test and then the lesson. Several years ago, I bought a new Stihl trimmer and used ethanol mixed with Stabil. In six months, the plastic fuel line had to be replaced (under the warranty). The fuel simply dissolved the line. The trimmer was also hard to start. Ditto with my Mantis tiller.



That’s when I switched to TruFuel. The starting issues went away, and the fuel line stayed intact. That’s all I use now. It is a bit more costly, but avoiding the hassle of a unit not starting easily is priceless.



I use three cans a season for my Echo trimmer and blower and have never had a problem with either. And the really nice thing is how easily they start in the spring after sitting all winter with Tru-Fuel in the tanks.

 

[mx842]

Adding more oil actually leans out the air-fuel mixture if you don't make carb adjustments.

You know I have heard this but always wondered about it. In theory maybe but running 40:1 in a saw that says they recomend 50:1 I don't think it makes all that much difference. Actually over 90% of the oil never makes it to the combustion chamber to begin with it gets slung off and used to lubricate the internal engine parts. Heck back in the day we used to run double oil in our bass boat engines and it never caused an issue made them smoke a little more and you would see the oil residue dripping out from the exhause after they sat for awhile. In fact Mercury told you to run double oil for the first few tank fulls or during break in period. I don't know what they suggest now with these newer fancy things, I've been out of the business for 15 years or more. Omc came out with one engine that they said should run on 100:1 but every rep I ever talked to said to run 50:1 in them. That's the one and only one reasion I believe in running the oil that what ever the engine manf put's out because it is designed for those engines with what ever additive package their engineers come up with.
I'm not saying what you stated is wrong I guess I'm just too old school and am going by what I have seen over the past 75 years........well maybe 67 years because I didn't start messing around with engines until I was about 8 or so.

 

[4Liberty]

I use the Stihl oil, and run 100 Sunoco leaded race fuel. Since I only burn less than 10 gallons in the 2 stroke stuff it’s good life insurance for the saws. What got me started on it is an MS440 that I ported and runs about 200 psi compression. Turned out to be a great wood cutter and I started using the 110 in the rest of the 2 strokes and they are really happy with it. I mean if you are going to go out of your way + spend extra $$ why not?

 

[Flogger]

20 years ago I switched to Opti 2 oil. I have not worked on a single 2 stroke engine since. I even ran 87 E10 with no problems. After experiencing issues with the 87 E10 in some of my older 4 stroke engines I switched to 91 octane but still have no luck finding it in E0. I have had good results with it and my 4 stroke engines run fine. The Opti 2 oil has a stabilizer in it that works as good as anything I've found elsewhere.

 

[kenmbz]

I run E10 93 octane with stabil and usually still or echo oil.
For my newest saw, it only gets truefuel or better pre-mix.

No non-E10 in this area except airports.

So far, all my equipment is fine, had to retire my older brushcutter as it was suffering metal fatigue along the shaft, but the carb was original, and it has to be 20 years old. Only replaced the fuel line once as it split where it goes into the carb and figured to just replace vs. recut.

 

[John_Mc]

There are some youtube videos showing how to remove ethanol from gas. Would this make better sense for someone who lives in an area where the only gas for sale has ethanol in it ?

Just be aware that the ethanol in E10 gas adds a few points of octane rating to the fuel. So if you start with 91 octane, you are down to about 88 or 89 octane once the ethanol is removed. Since fuel also can lose octane over time as it sits (and some of the more volatile compounds evaporate off), you could be getting to a point where it's a concern for some chainsaw engines.

The biggest concern with E10 gas in a relatively modern engine is phase separation as it ages. If it absorbs enough water, the water ethanol mix settles out. That mix is corrosive and can damage the carb and other engine parts. If you have to use ethanol gas, buy it from a station that sells a lot of fuel, so they are turning over their inventory regularly, use it promptly, and don't leave it sitting in your engine for extended periods. You will hear form people who leave it in their engines for months without a problem. That's certainly possible, but it's a risk. How much of a risk depends on the conditions in which the fuel is stored.

In older engines, there was another risk: some of the plastic or rubber compounds used were not compatible with ethanol. It would either start to dissolve those parts (old fuel lines were infamous for this) or could make them stiff or brittle (the diaphragm). Modern saws have different rubber/plastics which are more resistant to ethanol's effects (though I'm not sure they are 100% immune).

 

[bmg88201]

Also those products that say they can eliminate the ethanol from the gas is crap. If you get 10 gallons of 10% ethanol gas, that means that one gallon is ethanol. If those products did get rid of the ethanol, then you would end up with 9 gallons of gas. Which you don’t, so where did the ethanol go. It went nowhere.

 

[EricG1793]

My local power equipment dealer sells the VP premixed and ethanol-free regular fuel both by the container and in bulk. Going back a few years in pricing, I think it was $22/gal for their can and $14/gal in bulk (bring your own can). I didn't pay attention the last couple times I went. Maybe find a VP dealer in your area that would would carry this, or talk to your local power equipment dealer to see if they might start carrying it.

Either way, it's worth it to me since I don't do any sawing and just use a gallon or so of 50:1 a year for my leaf blower and weed whacker. They always start right up no matter how long it's been, no stabilizer, just the premixed VP fuel. For 4-stroke, I get premium fuel (E10) and Star Tron or Sea Foam stabilizer.

Dealer locator: VP Racing Fuels: Find a VP Dealer Near You | VP Racing Fuels, Inc

 

[John_Mc]

Also those products that say they can eliminate the ethanol from the gas is crap. If you get 10 gallons of 10% ethanol gas, that means that one gallon is ethanol. If those products did get rid of the ethanol, then you would end up with 9 gallons of gas. Which you don’t, so where did the ethanol go. It went nowhere.

You don't need any "product" to remove ethanol (unless you consider ordinary tap water a product). Add water, shake well, the ethanol combines with the water and settles to the bottom of the container. Drain off the water. If it was in fact 10% ethanol, and you start with 10 gallons, you will end up with 9 gallons.

It's a very simple process. I've done it on a small scale on numerous occasions: my Cessna 172 aircraft can run on either 100LL Avgas or NON-ethanol premium auto fuel. On rare occasions when Avgas was not available, I used auto fuel. However, I never trust that what is being sold is actually ethanol free. I put an inch or so of water in the bottom of an empty coke bottle, draw a line at the water level, then fill to about 3/4 full. Shake it, and let it settle. The water and any ethanol in the fuel will settle to the bottom (it almost looks like a big bubble that sinks, instead of floating). If the line between the gas on top and the "water" on the bottom is at the mark I drew, there was no ethanol. If the level in the bottle is higher than the mark, that's due to the ethanol which was pulled out by the water.

I've not really seen anyone advertising a product to remove ethanol. I have seen plenty of products which say they minimize the adverse effects of ethanol. (I don't think any of them actually claim to eliminate all of the problems.)