M5 steering noise vibration

[MHarryE]

I have a M5-111 with about 200 hours that has started having noise and vibration when steering, worse at high RPM’s. I’ve been doing a lot of PTO work at 2000 rpm (=540 PTO) but today running hi idle I notice the noise and vibration with every little steering movement. No, the front wheels are switched off. It almost sounds and feels like somebody failed to lube for 5,000 hours. Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[seville009]

My simplistic initial thought is to check and make sure every in the steering areas is nice and tight - no loose or missing bolts, connections, etc.

 

[5030]

Sounds to me like pump cavitation. Fluid level up to full? You might check the suction side (hose / pipe) for a pinhole as well. I presume your hydrostatic steering and hydraulic pump are separate like mine are on my M9's. Could also be a loose fitting on the orbital steering slave unit on the suction side. All it takes is a little air in the fluid to cause a vibration or jerk like feeling in the steering.

 

[loggin]

The only thing I would add to what 5030 said is that you should check the condition of the oil after running the engine for a while. Does the oil have air bubbles in it, does it look milky? When was the last time it was changed?

 

[Birch Hill Farm]

My 7060 did that at about 200 hrs. The hydraulic pump had already began failing and the metal shavings clogged up and caused power steering pump to fail. Had to be a design problem to fail on a new tractor. It was repaired under warranty

 

[Hay Dude]

Check for loose hoses or bolts, then start thinking about a hand pump.
My 126X had wandering steering and similar noises that started when the tractor was still like new. Dealer tried to fix, but I think it was a stall tactic to avoid replacing pump

 

[Seven Gables]

Any good news on your steering issue? Hopefully still under warranty.

 

[MHarryE]

Still seems the same. Only notice when under light conditions. Tractor gets switched from cutting to raking to baling. Only notice on the light, boring raking. First used in April, now has a little over 200 hours. Maybe nothing but I wondered if other M5 owners noticed same thing.

 

[Hay Dude]

Is it like a high-pitch buzz/whine when you steer?

 

[MHarryE]

Yes, but only notice it high engine speed and low load, hot oil, and doing the most boring job - raking hay - where I would recognize something different than on my other tractors because raking is so absolutely boring a person has time to ponder the little things.

 

[Wormwood]

Funny you mentioned this, I was leaving the shop with the batwing. Driving on the gravel drive the front end started this shaking thing. I thought it was some sort of resonance between the road, bar lugs & my tire psi & speed. It stopped after a few seconds & haven't noticed it again... This issue doesn't have anything to do with the hydraulics, it's something mechanical. Is this hat you're talking about?

Steve

 

[MHarryE]

Funny you mentioned this, I was leaving the shop with the batwing. Driving on the gravel drive the front end started this shaking thing. I thought it was some sort of resonance between the road, bar lugs & my tire psi & speed. It stopped after a few seconds & haven't noticed it again... This issue doesn't have anything to do with the hydraulics, it's something mechanical. Is this hat you're talking about?

Steve

No, mine is strictly hydraulic, something I notice only at low load high engine speed. Low load low engine speed it’s fine. High load high engine speed - my M7-171 had 2 long downtime periods this summer and I had to use the M5 in its place though with smaller implements and no problem. Baling hay, needed engine at 2000 rpm for PTO speed and no problem. Now it’s stored for the winter so see how it goes come spring. It’s only around 300 hours so just breaking in yet.

 

[rwskinner]

My 2022 M5-111 does this, it has 150 hours or so on it. Like when running the brush hog with engine at 2000 RPM (or 540 PTO speed not in E540 mode), moving slow the steering whines and buzzes like an car low of power steering fluid. I also see some steering drift - steering wheel requires more input to keep straight. When laying down the hay field, raking and baling I don't notice to much. My 7040 seemed to have more direct linked steering - less slippage. IOW - The spinner knob always stayed located at the same place when my wheels were straight. My M5, the spinner knob constantly changes it's location when wheels are straight.

 

[5030]

Both my M9's exhibit the same trait, steering wheel spinner winds up in a different position each time but that is a characteristic of the orbital gearmotor that drives the hydrostatic steering linkage and it my case, the orbital gearmotor is slowly taking a crap and like I said, it's really not rebuildable, just replaceable so I'll wait until it craps out and replace it. Both my M9's have always had somewhat vague steering and again, it's is inherent with the system for steering they both have. I ignore it. If it was direct connected via hard linkage, that would never occur. it's not. At first I thought I had a pinhole leak in the return hard line that feeds the hydraulic pump (and Kubota had a recall / replacement on that part sometime ago, but neither of mine have a pinhole leak (which would allow air to get in the system and cause a whine. My whine is under the dash where the hydraulic gearmotor is. Like I said, I ignore it and I check all my fluid levels prior to starting them up anyway and I do that every time and I don't use UDT nor SUDT in either of them, I use Chevron All Weather THC synthetic fluid which is actually more expensive than SUDT or SUDT2 is at the dealer but the cold weather flowability is superior to the OEM fluid, plus it's dyed orange so it's easier to see on the dipsticks. I use my can M9 in the winter and it gets COLD here and both tractors are stored in an unheated barn with no electrical service so it's imperative that the fluid I use flows well in cold weather and the Chevron does.

When it dies, I'll replace it. My units are both years out of warranty anyway,

 

[rwskinner]

Yes, My M5-111 and my M-7040 are hydrostatic steering and I understand they aren't hydro-assisted with a direct linkage so slippage is expected, I just notice that my M5 whines and "slips" much more than my 7040 ever did.

I notice all the hydraulics on the M5 has more leakage (internally) than any of my other machines. Most likely due to loser machining clearances in all the hydraulic valving. Mine was a covid tractor, so there were a few fit and finish issues and stuff not fully welded or welded on crooked. They replaced the loader frame because it was welded out of alignment.

Other than little things like mentioned, it performs well.

 

[5030]

I repaired a couple mis welded backhoe's and loaders for my dealer during the covid debacle. Seems as though the folks in Georgia were a bit sloppy when jigging up weldments. Mostly crooked pin bosses. Seems to have vanished as of late. Must be the employees have gotten more adept at setting up parts to be welded. Not a big deal. I line bored them and turned oversize pins for them. Customers would never know unless they told them and I'm sure they didn't say anything. Had one backhoe that was so crooked, I had to remove the crooked bosses and replace them. A coat of Kubota Orange 2 and all was good again. Interestingly, always the same parts as well. Dipper stick only which told me that whomever was doing the jigging and welding wasn't doing the job correctly.

 

[5030]

Nice thing about my 02 M9 cab tractor is it has the 2 speed flip shaft PTO option so I can flip the shaft from a 6 spline 540 to a 21 spline 1000 rpm variant and run the engine at an indicated 540 with a 21-6 spline adapter on the stub and that puts the engine at 1500 rpm so it's loafing along and works fine for limited power output applications like my grain leg or my hay tedder and it's just sipping fuel as well. No emissions crap on either, either so 1500 rpm is just fine and even at 1500, it will come up on the turbo if necessary.

In fact, both of them are very frugal on fuel usage and it actually improved after I had Dennis shim up the pumps for more ponies. he had them on the dyno and both are putting 97 PTO horses to the stubs now. Stock is 83 at the stub. Neither smoke excessively either. Just when lugged down. I expect a little smoke from a T3 interem engine anyway, especially ones that have the pumps shimmed up.

I was raised to the tune that if it don't smoke, there is no fire and no fire means no power.

The 3406 Cat I have in my semi tractor really rolls the coal if you get on the fuel pedal. It's a Cat and all good Cat's blow smoke. If they don't' they are sick.

 

[5030]

There will never be an emissions compliant tractor on this farm so long as I own it. I want nothing to do with them. Waste of diesel fuel in my view and waste of urea if they have urea injection. Urea is good fertilizer, not good emissions compliant additive. In fact, I buy and use outdared DEF in my big sprayer to put on my hayfields as a foliar inocculant. Alfalfa loves the stuff, it's easy to apply and less expensive than 46 granulated prills, especially now that the Ukraine is at war with Russia because the bulk of 46 granulated came from there.

Have two full 350 gallon IBC totes and one partial in the barn presently, all out of date and not sellable and I get them cheap because for the retailers to dispose of them, they have to go to a hazardous waste landfill and that in itself is expensive plus I get the empty IBC totes which I sell on FB marketplace or CL.