Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[Renze]

China doesn't have 80% of the lithium reserves. They "process" most of the lithium for battery production, but Australia is by far the leading supplier of raw lithium.

I didnt mention Lithium specifically with regard to China, but i should have said 80% of rare earth minerals, used for high power magnetos in large windmills, to be specific

Indeed, the hydrogen infrastructure isnt there. But if we keep adding wind and solar power, we need sub-grids where local wind and solar excess current is dumped in local electrolysing plants that turn the excess electricity into hydrogen: when you charge your EV on your 110V (or 240V in Europe) single phase home wall plug, you can loose up to 30% of energy during charging, and electrolysers are getting more and more efficient.

So if every town has a hydrogen station (instead of a gas station) that turns excess solar of households into hydrogen and stores it into a plain and simple pressure tank, we can get somewhat of a workable solution without grid failures or immense investments in grid peak capacity. (Just to fire a brain fart, i havent investigated this plan in detail, i am in heavy equipment, not appliances...)

Hydrogen is interesting, since you can run it in an HD diesel engine with relatively few modifications. We're getting into testing that at my company currently .

My company is working on battery electric conversions of excavators. With the counterweight exchanged for battery weight, it can run for 6 to 8 hours depending on duty cycle. Enough for infrastructure works in cities that accept tenders with the lowest "carbon footprint" but not enough for agriculture to drive 48 hours straight during harvest, or for earthmoving at commercial customers that want the lowest cost per yard and dont feel obliged to pay for political ideology...

 

[Renze]

Bosch also warns about going all in on batteries, mentions the reliance on Chinese raw materials:

Bosch warns automakers about going all-in on EV Tech - Motonewstoday.com

German engineering giant Bosch issued a warning to automakers to focus all their efforts on electric cars. The global automotive market is experiencing a rapid shift towards a zero-emissions future, made possible by electric vehicles, many of which will feature technical solutions from Bosch...

motonewstoday.com

 

[bnold]

when you charge your EV on your 110V (or 240V in Europe) single phase home wall plug, you can loose up to 30% of energy during charging, and electrolysers are getting more and more efficient.

Interested where this 30% comes from?
Im experiencing a 94.74% efficiency rate on a 240/1/50A location and a 95.27% efficiency rate on a 208/1/60A location.



Few main problems that would need to be overcome with Hydrogen. The efficiency losses are compounded in fuel cells. Generate electricity (primary way hydrogen is made now) to generate hydrogen, once in a vehicle hydrogen to product electricity for the motors. Efficiency rates I’ve seen are very poor.

Vs direct burn obviously.

Hydrogen is a tricky gas to store and move, just ask NASA and their new rocket. Toyota seems to be figuring it out, albeit slowly.

Definitely agree on the need for options and not all eggs in one fuel basket.

 

[Renze]

Interested where this 30% comes from?
Im experiencing a 94.74% efficiency rate on a 240/1/50A location and a 95.27% efficiency rate on a 208/1/60A location.

According to the German motorist union ADAC, using a 2300w "granny charger" plugged into a regular household wall plug, charging losses are between 25 and 30%.
Using a high capacity dedicated grid connection for a fast charger, 3.5 Kw charge had 11% loss and 11Kw charge had 7.7% loss, measured on a Model 3 Tesla and a Renault Zoe.

The 11Kw charger draws roughly 3 phase 22A, which means a typical 25A home outlet in Europe is pretty maxed out, if the house has 3 phase in the first place. And the local grid doesnt have the capacity to charge EVs of an entire block at once.
So 100% electrification will need substantial grid investments, both collectively as well as, to a lesser degree, private.

Japanese engineers have already brought electrolysis up to 95% efficiency which makes the gap between battery storage and hydrogen storage ever closer.
Because the early adopters went with energy distribution that already existed (electric grid) hydrogen was the stepchild. But the grid failures, or near failures because of renewables and increased electricity consumption due to heat pumps etcetera, (Germany was pretty close to a blackout two or three years ago, due to windstill weather and snow covered solar panels countrywide) will push the market to energy storage in less scarce mediums than Cobalt, Lithium, Nickel.

Next to the simple tank storage, a fuel cell contains no more exotic raw materials than the catalytic converter of a gas powered vehicle... It has huge benefits in terms of raw materials dependency, grid levelling and speed of refueling.

Elon Musk (Tesla) and Hakan Samuelsson (Volvo cars) make it sound stupid to turn excess electricity into hydrogen and accept conversion losses going back and forth, because they carry all their eggs in one particular basket: But a battery is no different, Electricity is converted into chemical energy during charging, and back to electrical energy when used.
Hydrogen only sounds silly because the average consumer never wondered why battery packs and charging stations have coolers: they have losses too... (somebody before said "mansplaining" ? )

I mean, in North America most pickup trucks still run gas V8 engines that are less efficient than their Diesel counterparts, though people still prefer a lower purchase price of a gasser vs the lower operational costs of a diesel (Europes light commercial vehicles are 99% diesel powered because of the higher fuel prices due to excise duty)

So the efficiency argument against hydrogen: You wont win that, just like you cant convince North America to run all their light commercial vehicles with more efficient but more expensive Diesel engines.

 

[bnold]

$2/gallon difference on gas vs diesel right now near me. The cost of fuel doesn’t come near making up for efficiency difference on a lightly loaded pickup.

I owned 2 VW diesel Jettas an 03 and a 11 (03 much better overall). Great mileage, but stupid to run one now with the disparity in fuel costs that has become the norm.

Maybe the question is what are they considering charge efficiency. My Calc is simply KW transfer/stored in battery / KW consumed in utility x 100. Or possibly the German Motorist Union has some bias.

Yes 100% electrification would need grid investment, 100% hydrogen would need infrastructure investment, fairy dust propulsion would need a genie in a bottle.

The batteries and motors do indeed have coolers, are you trying to equate the efficiency loss in those compared to the efficiency lost due to heat of an ICE?

I’d like to see 95% efficiency hydrogen production, haven’t heard of anyone getting near those numbers. That is commercially available at fueling stations? Most of the hydrogen fueling stations is aware of (not many, sure their are many other types), have the generator onsite.

I expect hydrogen to some day make a larger splash in trucking, mass transit, maybe even planes and trains. Easier to centralize the generation and distribution. Starting from scratch is an enormous feat. EVs already had a fuel distribution backbone to start with. Is it up to 100% ice replacement? Not even close. Why would anyone expect it to be?

 

[3930dave]

My 2 cents

MotorTrend Chose Dodge as the Heavy Duty truck of the year in 2003

I am biased since I have one.
I will say it is the little things that have been troublesome.
Like dash cracking, window switch , turn signal switch, Quick wearing leather seat coverings along with electric seat motors jamming, headlights that clouded up HVAC flapper door failures.
But what is solid:

Fully boxed hi tensile 50 KSI hydroformed frame.
Great AAM heavy duty axles front a solid axle.
NV 5600 cast Iron 6 speed manual trans with no dual mass flywheel
HPCR 24 valve Cummins with No emission devices.
Engine can be serviced without taking the entire cab off.
Cough -Ford

The Drivetrain is solid on this vintage Dodge.

At least the basic truck will start run and get you there without a Major engine failure
Little things can be irritating but major drivetrain failures are a deal breaker.

Lots of small businesses popped up doing what 4570 suggested when the Ford diesel let them down by Installing a Cummins in the Fords which makes for a very nice truck.

I left your post up on it's own tab, as it resonated with me.

1) I get why you've kept your truck.
2) My wife doesn't wrench, but being smart, and good listener, she gets it...... Watching a vid with me (Leno's Garage, one of his 1930's cars), her first comment when it came up - "Wow, look at how easy that engine is to access (long hood, horizontal hinged doors both sides)". I likely mumbled something like.... "Don't get me started......

First look under the hood of a Ford 6.7d...... left me shaking my head. Big shop, fast tech, the Ford cabs come off faster than I would have thought (spent a day at my buddy's shop doing something else, while one was being done). Still, not a bill I'd want.

FFWD to recent years, talking with neighbour's contractor grandson - the dealer has taken the cab off his Ram/Cummins at least once, to deal with an engine noise under Warranty. The disease seems to be catching.....

I've owned/own Fords/Chev/Chrysler, so I'm not blindly committed to any one particular flavour..... they all have their warts/weak points.....

3) Dodge will march to its own drum...... leading to things like the Prowler, keeping stick shifts in PUs the longest, Ramboxes on the bedside..... I like choices.....

Never been much of a fan of Dodge front ends (cars or trucks) in general, they seem somewhat under-engineered to me. What I do like in the Ram pu line from a reliability standpoint is their gasoline engines (KISS reliablity) - didn't have the projectile spark plugs of the Ford gassers, or the 70's era motorcycle 2-stroke oil consumption level of the GM DOD gasoline truck engines......

4) Tech and trucks.... all changes.... read/read/read, and find what fits your needs/wants. 3.5 EB - a personal friend of mine (one of the sharpest tech minds you'll ever find) did the research, and picked a 3 or 4 year old later generation EB F150, and has been happy with it, for the most part.

Whatever modern engine you get...... spend some time researching (and/or doing) oil analysis for that engine..... fuel dilution, esp. with a boosted DI gas engine definitely does NOT add longevity.....

Rgds, D.

 

[deerefan]

I left your post up on it's own tab, as it resonated with me.

1) I get why you've kept your truck.
2) My wife doesn't wrench, but being smart, and good listener, she gets it...... Watching a vid with me (Leno's Garage, one of his 1930's cars), her first comment when it came up - "Wow, look at how easy that engine is to access (long hood, horizontal hinged doors both sides)". I likely mumbled something like.... "Don't get me started......

First look under the hood of a Ford 6.7d...... left me shaking my head. Big shop, fast tech, the Ford cabs come off faster than I would have thought (spent a day at my buddy's shop doing something else, while one was being done). Still, not a bill I'd want.

FFWD to recent years, talking with neighbour's contractor grandson - the dealer has taken the cab off his Ram/Cummins at least once, to deal with an engine noise under Warranty. The disease seems to be catching.....

I've owned/own Fords/Chev/Chrysler, so I'm not blindly committed to any one particular flavour..... they all have their warts/weak points.....

3) Dodge will march to its own drum...... leading to things like the Prowler, keeping stick shifts in PUs the longest, Ramboxes on the bedside..... I like choices.....

Never been much of a fan of Dodge front ends (cars or trucks) in general, they seem somewhat under-engineered to me. What I do like in the Ram pu line from a reliability standpoint is their gasoline engines (KISS reliablity) - didn't have the projectile spark plugs of the Ford gassers, or the 70's era motorcycle 2-stroke oil consumption level of the GM DOD gasoline truck engines......

4) Tech and trucks.... all changes.... read/read/read, and find what fits your needs/wants. 3.5 EB - a personal friend of mine (one of the sharpest tech minds you'll ever find) did the research, and picked a 3 or 4 year old later generation EB F150, and has been happy with it, for the most part.

Whatever modern engine you get...... spend some time researching (and/or doing) oil analysis for that engine..... fuel dilution, esp. with a boosted DI gas engine definitely does NOT add longevity.....

Rgds, D.

One of the main reasons we just bought a Chevy 2500 6.0 for our towing needs. Very simple engine, easy to work on and maintain.

 

[3930dave]

One of the main reasons we just bought a Chevy 2500 6.0 for our towing needs. Very simple engine, easy to work on and maintain. View attachment 763829

Thoreau summed it up, long before IC engines were born....

Guessing yours is DI (?), but quoting my contractor neighbour (hopefully the first time in this thread.....) about his old GM 6.0 Cube Van "Am I doing the right thing ?" ...... as he drove it to auction, with well over 600k km on it. Everything still worked, including A/C.

Other than normal things (brakes, plugs....) the only other thing he had to do with the engine was a coil-pack or 2. A lot of hard miles, in a heavily loaded contractor application.

Commercial Downtime...... even if you can rent/beg/borrow/steal an equivalent contractor suitable truck (tough to do pre-covid, forget now....) just the time you lose transferring tools, equipment, supplies over to the loaner truck (just to do it back again, later) is non-trivial.

The simplest "maintenance" task you can do is pour fuel in, esp. in a commercial application. That <, is a positive comment, in case it didn't sound that way.......

That contractors GM 6.0 got replaced with a Dodge Sprinter Dzl. Good fuel mileage when working right, but has been much more demanding (Hanger Queen) on the maintenance side, compared to the old 6.0.

Rgds, D.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Just have a set of the fancy lifters for the GM and should be Gtg

 

[not2old]

All i want is a 5.9 cummins with a p-pump, g56 trans, basic radio and hand crank windows in a 2022 body.

and no touch screen