How does an HST compare in pulling power with the same tractor and a gear trans?

[4570Man]

What was the last gear driven tractor you drove? Those old Ford 2N/9N tractors that were already bad enough in their time, let alone now? Must be if you think that the todays geared transmissions are still the old school unsynchronized with maybe 3 gears...

Most tractors these days have synchronized forward/reverse shuttle along with the main gears. Some even have the range gears synchronized as well. Changing directions on those tractors is as fast and simple as is moving your foot on an HST pedal.

I’ve had a Kubota 2550 with a hydraulic shuttle which is a pretty good trans and I’ve had one and used several more Kubotas with the more basics 4 speed hi/low trans. Those are still offered today and I hate them.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Why would there be any difference in the power output of the PTO? Isn't the PTO direct drive in both transmission types?

Because the engine has to drive a bigger pump and because the second you push the whiner pedal, it takes even more hp from the engine. That among other things = less going to the PTO.

How much less? It all depends on a lot of different things like how fast you are going ect..

SR

 

[5030]

Actually I rarely use the wet clutch on either of my M9's. I 'float' the gears most times and if I need to stop I just move the shuttle lever into the neutral position.

Just like my class 8 road tractor. Only time I use the clutch is to start out and completely stop and most times I just put it in neutral.. I'm a gear floater, always have been.

 

[ptsg]

I’ve had a Kubota 2550 with a hydraulic shuttle which is a pretty good trans and I’ve had one and used several more Kubotas with the more basics 4 speed hi/low trans. Those are still offered today and I hate them.

You need to look at other brands as well since Kubota really got stuck behind everyone else in the USA, specially when it comes to geared transmissions, as they had to follow the trend of the HST. Interestingly enough, they do offer a 16x16 transmission with dry clutch in Europe starting on the L2372 model (equivalent to the L3560).

As far as costs between hydraulic shuttle or dry clutch. Back in 2018, when I happened to check some prices, Kioti had the DK5020 Hydraulic shuttle and 16x16 transmission selling for €19,500, which is inline with other brands offering the same 16x16 but with dry clutch like the Branson 5025R or LS R50. So I don't think that there is an huge difference between dry clutch and hydraulic shuttle. Definitely won't get near the HST prices.

 

[SgtSluggo]

Anti theft...

What age do you think Millennials are? I learned to drive a stick as did many around me. I still drive an automatic now because I have no delusion that there is anything better about a manual transmission for what I use my car for. Same thing with the HST. It's been drastically easier than the gear drive I had with no disadvantages for me so far.

Also, if it's a problem that a whole generation doesn't know how to do something as frequently as they should, it isn't a problem with that generation so much as it's a problem with those who were supposed to teach us. Wonder who that would be...

What was the last gear driven tractor you drove? Those old Ford 2N/9N tractors that were already bad enough in their time, let alone now? Must be if you think that the todays geared transmissions are still the old school unsynchronized with maybe 3 gears...

Most tractors these days have synchronized forward/reverse shuttle along with the main gears. Some even have the range gears synchronized as well. Changing directions on those tractors is as fast and simple as is moving your foot on an HST pedal.

When I was looking, lots of the gear drive CUTs seemed to have none of the fancy synchronization that you speak of (at least not the ones for sale around here). I think because they are viewed as the "budget" option they don't even get the good gear drive. Yes, the bigger tractors often did have the better transmissions, but that isn't a fair comparison.


There is a big difference between people here talking about 20-40hp tractors and the 50+ hp tractors in what they are meant for and what they are good at. There is also a serious unwelcoming attitude in this discussion for those that did not grow up in the world of big farm tractors. I love how much I can learn here and other places on the internet, but I hate it when I have to weed through all those who somehow have a problem with those of us who grew up in the city but don't want to raise our kids there.

 

[scootr]

According to google. Millennials are anyone born from 1981 to 1996. BUt it's a state of mide as well.
I say if it's my fault you don't know how to shift a gearbox you are a millenial at heart if not in age anyway. Really didn't mean to offend anybody - the sticker is just a joke old guys pass around. If you can't laugh at yourself this world is going to be a harsh place to live. Peace out.

 

[LouNY]

I am not sure the answer at 100%, so I am not going to answer it ... but it is the case

View attachment 763550

I would suspect it's because it is having to spin that hydrostatic pump as long as the engine is turning.

 

[Molalla1]

Same here like 'what is that other pedal for and what is that thing sticking up through the floor....lol

No 'Valet' parking for us. Valet's don't have a clue either....

Ya mean I should not drive my 2006 1 ton stick where there is a "Valet"? .

 

[SgtSluggo]

According to google. Millennials are anyone born from 1981 to 1996. BUt it's a state of mide as well.
I say if it's my fault you don't know how to shift a gearbox you are a millenial at heart if not in age anyway. Really didn't mean to offend anybody - the sticker is just a joke old guys pass around. If you can't laugh at yourself this world is going to be a harsh place to live. Peace out.

I had a whole thing typed out, but it isn't worth it so I'll go with... Okay boomer.

 

[scootr]

And the fun thing is I'm not offended by that because I grew up without participation awards.
Cheers and peace out from an old guy.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

Not really. Today's big trucks are mostly automatics, not manuals. Hybrid automatics, standard gearbox with a servo actuated (electronic controlled) clutch pack. No clutch pedal at all.

As an experienced truck driver I can tell you that automatic trucks have come a long way but they still have a long way to come. The company I work for has a pretty even mixture. I’ve had times driving automatics that I was so frustrated I wanted to drive it off a bridge.

 

[JethroB]

Ya mean I should not drive my 2006 Ram 1 ton stick where there is a "Valet"? .

I’d have to drive 100 miles to find a valet. Unless we are talking about full service car washes that do oil changes

 

[5030]

push the whiner pedal

I Like that ...'whiner pedal' Pretty aptly describes it I'd say...

 

[5030]

As an experienced truck driver I can tell you that automatic trucks have come a long way but they still have a long way to come. The company I work for has a pretty even mixture. I’ve had times driving automatics that I was so frustrated I wanted to drive it off a bridge.

You do realize that today, to get a CDL, you have to have a special endorsement for a standard transmission???

30+ years for me with either a 13 double over or an 18 speed.. My personal big truck has a 13 double over in it.

 

[Molalla1]

I Like that ...'whiner pedal' Pretty aptly describes it I'd say...

Some "whine" more than others . . .

 

[Edward Romero]

Does the hydraulic shuttle work well when inching such as backing up to an implement for 3PH mounting.

Put in 1st gear just engage the clutch and it will creep along with no throttle.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

You do realize that today, to get a CDL, you have to have a special endorsement for a standard transmission???

30+ years for me with either a 13 double over or an 18 speed.. My personal big truck has a 13 double over in it.

yes I am aware. I drive a 13 everyday as well.

 

[Hay Dude]

As an experienced truck driver I can tell you that automatic trucks have come a long way but they still have a long way to come. The company I work for has a pretty even mixture. I’ve had times driving automatics that I was so frustrated I wanted to drive it off a bridge.

I like the speed factor of automatics. Have 2 friends with class 8 automatics and they will flat out scoot away from a comparably powered manual. I borrowed their trucks from time to time and the Pete with a HD Allison would walk away from manuals at red lights pretty mush 100% of the time. Another has a Mack triable with an auto and he loves it.
I learned and took my CDL test in a manual, but now the newer automatics are better and are taking over the vocational trucking industry.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

I like the speed factor of automatics. Have 2 friends with class 8 automatics and they will flat out scoot away from a comparably powered manual. I borrowed their trucks from time to time and the Pete with a HD Allison would walk away from manuals at red lights pretty mush 100% of the time. Another has a Mack triable with an auto and he loves it.
I learned and took my CDL test in a manual, but now the newer automatics are better and are taking over the vocational trucking industry.

I’ve heard that the Macks are pretty good but we don’t have any. Mostly Kenworths and freightliners. Mine is a t800 with a 500 Cummins and goes pretty good.

 

[5030]

I’ve heard that the Macks are pretty good but we don’t have any.

I’ve heard that the Macks are pretty good but we don’t have any.

I know some really good Mack jokes. Problem is, none of them are PG 13 so I cannot post them.