How does an HST compare in pulling power with the same tractor and a gear trans?

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

npalen said:
Does the hydraulic shuttle work well when inching such as backing up to an implement for 3PH mounting.

Absolutely, I just go into a low gear when hooking up. Both my shuttle tractors are equipped with creep gears anyway plus I have auxiliary 3 point hitch controls on the back fender. Remember , mine are full sized tractors, not small ones so there is no reaching into the operators area to move the hitch arms.

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

Sawyer Rob said:
Owning both, I don't see the advantage of a hydro in the big picture EXCEPT it's easier for the newbs to learn how to run a tractor.

Today, not many young'ins know how to change gears in the first place. In fact, being brought up with slush box tranny's in cars, most don't have a clue, hence the popularity of HST's.

4570Man · Sep 22, 2022

5030 said:
Well, after owning and operating around 10 Kubota's (I prefer them actually, and that hinges mostly on my dealer relationship), all of them HST's except the last 2. It's a toss up far as I'm concerned. HST's are inherently more complex and HST's all have parasitic power loss just like an automatic transmission in a motor vehicle.

Having said that a gear drive with a hydraulic shuttle for me combines the features of clutchless shifting (there is no clutch) with instant forward and reverse (via the shuttle lever for loader work) with no parasitic power loss and no additional heat created by the HST transmission.

If I had to buy a new tractor (which I don't-won't), it would be a gear drive hydraulic shuttle hands down.

The hydraulic shuttle combines the convenience of an HST with none of the disadvantages like power loss and complexity.

Far as tractive effort is concerned, that all has to do with tractor weight and tire choice as well as front wheel assist.

I agree on your opinion about using the hydraulic shuttle especially on a larger tractor. But if the system was implemented on a 30 hp tractor how much cost or complexity have you really saved?

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

4570Man said:
I agree on your opinion about using the hydraulic shuttle especially on larger tractor. But if the system was implemented on a on a 30 hp tractor how much cost or complexity have you really saved?

Nothing in reality and why the bulk of the under 30 horse class is/are HST's.

Most compact units are also used for mowing lawns and other domestic stuff so an HST is the way to fly. For me, they are a non starter.

4570Man · Sep 22, 2022

5030 said:
Nothing in reality and why the bulk of the under 30 horse class is/are HST's.

Most compact units are also used for mowing lawns and other domestic stuff so an HST is the way to fly. For me, they are a non starter.

Since a hydraulic shuttle would cost the same or probably even more the than a HST the vast majority of compact gear tractors are the bare bones dry clutch unsynchronized gear trans. And that’s a very operator unfriendly transmission to use for anything involving speed changes or direction changes. Increased reliability simply isn’t true either. You’re more likely to have to split that tractor to put a clutch in than the chances of the HST ever tearing up.

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

They do fail like anything else and replacement is expensive.

4570Man · Sep 22, 2022

5030 said:
They do fail like anything else and replacement is expensive.

Anything can fail but a dry clutch is a wear item that will fail. And the labor to change it is fairly expensive.

Rockbadchild · Sep 22, 2022

HST simply do not have the power of gear transmission , you can see it in the PTO output and feel it in the wheels output as well ... I have a HST tractor and mainly do land works like plowing, disking and field clearing and I wish I would've got a gears tractor, HST has its place and its faster and easier but for net HP output it is inferiors in all aspects.

npalen · Sep 22, 2022

Rockbadchild said:
HST simply do not have the power of gear transmission , you can see it in the PTO output and feel it in the wheels output as well ... I have a HST tractor and mainly do land works like plowing, disking and field clearing and I wish I would've got a gears tractor, HST has its place and its faster and easier but for net HP output it is inferiors in all aspects.

Why would there be any difference in the power output of the PTO? Isn't the PTO direct drive in both transmission types?

Sawyer Rob · Sep 22, 2022

5030 said:
Today, not many young'ins know how to change gears in the first place. In fact, being brought up with slush box tranny's in cars, most don't have a clue, hence the popularity of HST's.

I have a friend who always commented when I locked my PU that has a stick, "why lock it, no thief knows how to drive a stick these days"... lol

SR

Sawyer Rob · Sep 22, 2022

4570Man said:
Anything can fail but a dry clutch is a wear item that will fail. And the labor to change it is fairly expensive.

99.9% of the failure of a dry clutch in because of the operator, now we are back to the newb not knowing how to drive a tractor!

I've never replaced a clutch in any of my tractors, dry or not.

SR

scootr · Sep 22, 2022

I studied the specs and there is a loss but it is not big, I think it was 5% or so in what I saw. I simply got enough hp to where the loss was negated by the overkill - after 30 yrs of shuttle shift, it is a bit weird to have the tractor work like the lawn mower but it has it's advantages in tight quarters and motor rpm control.

jyoutz · Sep 22, 2022

4570Man said:
Since a hydraulic shuttle would cost the same or probably even more the than a HST the vast majority of compact gear tractors are the bare bones dry clutch unsynchronized gear trans. And that’s a very operator unfriendly transmission to use for anything involving speed changes or direction changes. Increased reliability simply isn’t true either. You’re more likely to have to split that tractor to put a clutch in than the chances of the HST ever tearing up.

You have summed it up nicely. The hydraulic shuttle transmission that 5030 is talking about is superior to the unsynchronized gear transmission with dry clutch that some people are saying is superior to a HST in a CUT. They are nowhere near the same thing.

scootr · Sep 22, 2022

Anti theft...

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

Same here like 'what is that other pedal for and what is that thing sticking up through the floor....lol

No 'Valet' parking for us. Valet's don't have a clue either....

5030 · Sep 22, 2022

Sawyer Rob said:
99.9% of the failure of a dry clutch in because of the operator, now we are back to the newb not knowing how to drive a tractor!

I've never replaced a clutch in any of my tractors, dry or not.

SR

Never replaced a dry clutch in anything either. The clutch pedal is not a foot rest nor is it to be used as an excuse for running slow.

jyoutz · Sep 22, 2022

scootr said:
Anti theft...

It’s not a matter of knowing how to use something. It’s a matter of what is nicer to use. I had a tractor with an unsychronized transmission with dry clutch for 21 years. I used it for everything and it worked. It was also a PITA and I would never buy one again. Love the HST in my current machine.

ptsg · Sep 22, 2022

4570Man said:
Since a hydraulic shuttle would cost the same or probably even more the than a HST the vast majority of compact gear tractors are the bare bones dry clutch unsynchronized gear trans. And that’s a very operator unfriendly transmission to use for anything involving speed changes or direction changes. Increased reliability simply isn’t true either. You’re more likely to have to split that tractor to put a clutch in than the chances of the HST ever tearing up.

What was the last gear driven tractor you drove? Those old Ford 2N/9N tractors that were already bad enough in their time, let alone now? Must be if you think that the todays geared transmissions are still the old school unsynchronized with maybe 3 gears...

Most tractors these days have synchronized forward/reverse shuttle along with the main gears. Some even have the range gears synchronized as well. Changing directions on those tractors is as fast and simple as is moving your foot on an HST pedal.

ptsg · Sep 22, 2022

Here I am, moving some dirt with my geared tractor. Accordingly to the internet myths spread all over, by the end of the video, I should've replaced the clutch, had surgery on my left knee since it was destroyed to death with all the clutch use, oh and technically I could've done the job in the first place since geared tractors are terrible for this type of work? I also run the rototiller with this tractor and according to yet another myth, geared tractors can't run tillers because they won't go slow enough or something silly like that.