HST hydraulic filter and fluid change owner's manual inaccuracy

[frcnLS]

Maybe this will help someone (or maybe someone will let me know if I missed something). Among other tasks, the 50 hour service calls for the replacement of the hydraulic oil filter, the HST filter, and the engine oil filter as well as the engine and transmission (hydraulic) oil.

Maybe you did the 50 hr. service yourself and maybe even the 300hr. If you did, you know. If you have not, be aware that the owner's manual seems less than complete for these tasks. The manual states that just the Hydraulic and HST filters get changed at the 300 hour service. The transmission oil (which is the hydraulic fluid) change is called for at the 500 hour service. Maybe I missed something, but if you do not drain the transmission first when changing the hydraulic oil filter, when you remove the "Main Hydraulic Filter" which on my MT240HE is under the right floor pan, it (unexpectedly?) drains the transmission! The system holds 8.5 gallons! That's 32 liters. I will add that, just in case you are a fluid-volume estimation-challenged person, that is A FREAKIN' LOT OF OIL!

I once forgot to replace the drain plug on a Volkswagen and lost about half a quart of oil onto the garage floor. It is AMAZING how large of a spread out puddle that is! 8.5 gallons would be a 9-1-1 Exon Valdez HazMat phone call.

I think that the transmission hydraulic filter and the fluid should be changed at the same time. Why? Because unless you are REALLY fast removing and installing the filter (like "THE FLASH" fast), the transmission is going to be drained of a lot of fluid anyway. So unless someone here can give us (me) better information (besides using a winch and standing the tractor vertically, nose up), I think the manual should state that the hydraulic filter, HST filter and Transmission (hydraulic) oil should be changed at 500 hour intervals together. Engine oil and oil filter then would remain at 300 hour intervals.

The first time that you first remove the Hydraulic filter with a full transmission will likely be the last, or maybe the next to last..

At least I had a big drain pan under it the second time and screwed the filter back on before too much hit the floor.. ughhh.

 

[seville009]

I think they just left out of the manual the instructions to turn the tractor upside down first if only the filter is changed.......ha ha


Interestingly, the hydro filter on my skidsteer is on top behind the seat panel; it actually can be changed without having to drain the fluid.

 

[Doofy]

I did the vacuum cleaner trick at the transmission fill point and lost about a quart total. My tractor only called for the filter change at the 50 hour Service.

 

[Avenger]

The reason for this is wear. The oil is still good, but contains small metal particles from the breaking in process. The filters do a very good job at filtering this material, but need to be changed. Since the oil is still good, simply change the filter and keep the oil. At about the 500 hour mark, the oil is no longer 'good' and is recommended to changed both the filters and the oil. From that point on, is probably ok to change the filter with the oil every 500 hours. Even though the manual states every 50 for a filter change. If you're good about checking the fluid and keeping dirt out of the hydraulics, then 500 is probably fine.

 

[frcnLS]

The filters do a very good job at filtering this material, but need to be changed. Since the oil is still good, simply change the filter and keep the oil. At about the 500 hour mark, the oil is no longer 'good' and is recommended to changed both the filters and the oil.

My point was that it cannot be done unless you put the used fluid that POURS out back into the transmission. It would be a challenge to change the filter before five gallons pours out!

Doofy's tip about using a vacuum at the fill opening is intriguing to say the least! Combine that with changing the filter on a steep hill or with the front wheeels up an embankment may just be the trick. But it should not be necessary to do so if LS recommends changing the filter but not the fluid.

 

[oldnslo]

Agree on challenges of changing filters without changing oil but what percentage of people that write maintenance manuals actually put a wrench on anything?

First 50 hours everything is wearing in so oil gets dirty quickly which is why filter change is required. On my tractor they also recommended oil change at same time so wasn’t a concern.

 

[GSVette]

It really isn’t that hard to do without losing more than a quart or so of fluid. I did my 50hr service a couple of years back ( did not do the vacuum trick ) and measured less than a quart of fluid loss. Comes down to having everything staged so that there is very little time between the old filter coming off the last thread and the new filter going on.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

When I did my first 50 hr service, I did the vacuum trick.... my guess is maybe 3-4 tablespoons of loss of oil (not including what was in the filter). Definitely had everything 'staged', but wasn't necessary. Once you use the vacuum trick, you'll never do it any other way!

My manual shows engine oil & filter, HST & Hydraulic filters only at 50 hours. Then HST and hydraulic filters with hydraulic/ trans. fluid replacement at 250 hours.

 

[TheRealWorld]

Sorry for putting this here, but I have worn a hole in my steering hose, and I can't figure out where I add new fluid for the steering. Anyone know the answer on my P 7040 LS?

 

[seville009]

Sorry for putting this here, but I have worn a hole in my steering hose, and I can't figure out where I add new fluid for the steering. Anyone know the answer on my P 7040 LS?

Wouldn't it just be the hydraulic fluid that powers the steering cylinders?

 

[TheRealWorld]

Thanks for the reply, but that makes sense, and I just want to be sure. I also can't find that fluid-level reservoir!

 

[seville009]

Thanks for the reply, but that makes sense, and I just want to be sure. I also can't find that fluid-level reservoir!

The site glass? That is most likely in the back by the 3 pt hitch. Can be hard to find - sometimes have to get in real close.

 

[frcnLS]

Take a look at this attached spreadsheet which graphically shows the problem with the owner's manual's recommendations and reinforces my opinion that the service schedule in the manual is wrong. You will see that at each 1500 hour interval the fluid and the filter are changed together (indicated by the red arrows). You will also note that there are times when you will do two fluid changes between filter changes (green arrow).

• Logically, a filter change every two fluid changes may make sense (it is a huge filter with great capacity).
• A filter change every oil change makes sense. If you are taking away dirty or used fluid, change the filter.
• But intervals which have you change them together sometimes, and at other times go two fluid changes before changing changing the filter does not make sense.
• And a system that makes it ridiculously impossible or a terrible mess when changing just the filter without giving the owner some idea as to how to do it without creating an environmental mess is just rude or a for-profit scheme to make owners take their tractor to a dealer for service.
• I cannot imagine a manufacturer wanting you to drain the fluid, change the filter, then replace that drained fluid back into the transmission.

I have been servicing my own (and other peoples) vehicles for 5½ decades. Motorcycles, cars, RVs, power equipment, etc. While this is my first tractor, this sort of maintenance schedule on a fluid change is unique to me. Why change just the fluid but leave over a quart of old fluid in the filter and attached lines? Why remove and drain a used filter and put it back into service? Why have a system without a way to take the filter off and not have the tranny empty itself?
The filter could have been located above the transmission's fluid level would have been nice. A filter large enough to be able to be rated to go 500 miles would have been nicer.

"oil filter wrench drop and walk out of the garage..."

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

That is strange to have the schedule set that way. I was specifically told by the dealer that the fluid can go way over 500 hours unless it somehow got contaminated. I would just move those hour figures to coordinate with the filter changes.

 

[frcnLS]

I read some of the earlier posts talking about losing only a small amount of fluid. It could be that the layout of their hydraulic system is different from the one on the MT240HE, but it could be that they are talking about the smaller HST filter if they have the hydrostatic transmission and not the very large Hydraulic Oil Filter.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I read some of the earlier posts talking about losing only a small amount of fluid. It could be that the layout of their hydraulic system is different from the one on the MT240HE, but it could be that they are talking about the smaller HST filter if they have the hydrostatic transmission and not the very large Hydraulic Oil Filter.

They were probably using the shop vac trick..... basically loosely duct tape the shop vac hose over the dipstick / fill port and turn it on. Then remove the filter... the suction from the vac "pulls" air back through the filter mounting stub.... it will 'gurgle' while doing this, but only a few drops of the fluid will cone out.

There are YouTube videos showing the process.

 

[ZetorSteve]

I read some of the earlier posts talking about losing only a small amount of fluid. It could be that the layout of their hydraulic system is different from the one on the MT240HE, but it could be that they are talking about the smaller HST filter if they have the hydrostatic transmission and not the very large Hydraulic Oil Filter.

I have the same tractor as you and did not use the vacuum trick durring the 50hr service. I did not read up on it either. I lost about 1.5 gallons of oil in the drain pan total after I figured out it's not going to stop untill I put the new filters on. Topped it off with new oil. I bet I'd be able to loose less than a half gallon of oil next time but you only have to worry about this once as it's filter and oil changes frome here on out.

 

[JCoastie]

I have a MT240HE also, the vacuum trick works, you really only lose what's in the filter, the suction keeps the rest of the fluid from pouring out.

 

[Ddh1961]

The vacuum trick works on an MT2 25E as well, I only lost a few ounces. The hydraulic oil in the filter I repurposed by pouring it into an empty quart sized oil container and I use it on a rag to wipe my hydraulic cylinders on my tractor, backhoe, etc after using them to prevent corrosion, as I live near salt water.

 

[shooterdon]

Using the vacuum is a neat trick!