LS or Kubota

[rScotty]

SNIP
I tend to agree that a "safe loader lift capacity" that considers tractor stability would be nice to know. But, I don't think anyone does that. It would also be hard to nail down because that is going to vary tremendously based on tire selection, speed of travel, surface geometry, etc. I don't know of any tractor that is NOT capable of lifting the rear wheels when operated as it comes from the market. That is, no filled tires or added counterweight. In other words, all tractors are inherently unstable as advertised.

Well, I think that slope stability would be too tough of a target. But simple for & aft stability ought to be doable. It could be as simple as putting some counterweight numbers onto the loader tech sheet.

Come to think of it, I believe you are right and most tractors will lift the rear tires until they are counterweighted to prevent it. Commercial equipment doesn't tend to do that - but that is simply because they are deliberately pre-weighted one way or another. Having a backhoe on the rear does provide a very reliable counterweight.

First step in leveling the playing field for fore & aft stability would be to have the loader specs state safe lift with a recommended size counterweight. That's fair, and in fact I believe some already do that.
rScotty

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

the LS mt342 is an impressive package for a great price and I would have bought the mt342 except for 3 things, the engine is a turbo design and I avoid turbos in tractors, just my preference, the dealer network is thinner than others but all of that can be overcome the killer for me was that LS will not allow customers to purchase the factory service manual for the MT342. for me personally no factory service manual == no sale. I tried everything but the dealer said there was nothing that he could do.

I'm wondering now if this is also true for Kioti.

 

[DaBear3428]

Well, I think that slope stability would be too tough of a target. But simple for & aft stability ought to be doable. It could be as simple as putting some counterweight numbers onto the loader tech sheet.

Come to think of it, I believe you are right and most tractors will lift the rear tires until they are counterweighted to prevent it. Commercial equipment doesn't tend to do that - but that is simply because they are deliberately pre-weighted one way or another. Having a backhoe on the rear does provide a very reliable counterweight.

First step in leveling the playing field for fore & aft stability would be to have the loader specs state safe lift with a recommended size counterweight. That's fair, and in fact I believe some already do that.
rScotty

some loader specs do list a counter weight for the given lift capacity. Mahindra ml106 lists 800# if memory serves.

 

[ptsg]

Usually loader manuals will say something like: The rear axle should have at least 20% of the total weight of the tractor (including loader, attachment, load and counterweight).

They then give a little formula to figure all that out.

 

[jrsavoie]

And a used tractor would have to be about 50+ years old to be made in USA.

LOL.

That is kind of the age group of equipment I am familiar with

 

[shooterdon]

Lift capacity is one of the main reasons I went with the LS. To get the same performance with the Kubota or JD I had to invest a lot more. And even if I wanted to spend the extra money, only the LS would fit into my storage building (limited to door clearance of 94" IIRC). I wanted to be able to lift a half cord of wood. Lift height was not important in my application. I never need to lift the maximum load more than a foot or two. Also, I wanted a cab, and cabs on the Kubota and JD are much more expensive.

The LS is not perfect. It is a bit annoying to wait two minutes at idle to shut off the engine. (I think that is due to the turbo). Getting at the oil filter is a PITA. The AC is marginal on very hot days. But overall, the LS has proven a good value that meets my needs. But I do not know what I do not know. I am not experienced. A low hour operator (210 in three years)

For new owners reading this...bear that in mind. Guys with over 3000 hours of seat time have a different perspective. What may be minor inconveniences for a hobby user like I are significant for them...ie stuff like the responsiveness of the FEL controls or HST+. What takes me 70 hours to do with the LS, they might accomplish in 50 hours with a Kubota. Even if I had the better machine, due to my lack of skill, I might still take 65 hours so the advantages of better are less. If they had to use an LS, they might need 60 hours to do 50 hours of work. 20% more time matters if you spend 250 or more hours a year on a tractor.
When I went through the buying process, I weighed those factors. I estimated about 100-120 hours a year of use (based on my limited experience with the JD855 I had). It made the investment in a Kubota difficult to justify.

After three years of ownership, I have no regrets. I saved over $8000 on the machine and another $3000 to modify the storage building door for additional clearance.

 

[Number15]

Lift capacity is one of the main reasons I went with the LS. To get the same performance with the Kubota or JD I had to invest a lot more. And even if I wanted to spend the extra money, only the LS would fit into my storage building (limited to door clearance of 94" IIRC). I wanted to be able to lift a half cord of wood. Lift height was not important in my application. I never need to lift the maximum load more than a foot or two. Also, I wanted a cab, and cabs on the Kubota and JD are much more expensive.

The LS is not perfect. It is a bit annoying to wait two minutes at idle to shut off the engine. (I think that is due to the turbo). Getting at the oil filter is a PITA. The AC is marginal on very hot days. But overall, the LS has proven a good value that meets my needs. But I do not know what I do not know. I am not experienced. A low hour operator (210 in three years)

For new owners reading this...bear that in mind. Guys with over 3000 hours of seat time have a different perspective. What may be minor inconveniences for a hobby user like I are significant for them...ie stuff like the responsiveness of the FEL controls or HST+. What takes me 70 hours to do with the LS, they might accomplish in 50 hours with a Kubota. Even if I had the better machine, due to my lack of skill, I might still take 65 hours so the advantages of better are less. If they had to use an LS, they might need 60 hours to do 50 hours of work. 20% more time matters if you spend 250 or more hours a year on a tractor.
When I went through the buying process, I weighed those factors. I estimated about 100-120 hours a year of use (based on my limited experience with the JD855 I had). It made the investment in a Kubota difficult to justify.

After three years of ownership, I have no regrets. I saved over $8000 on the machine and another $3000 to modify the storage building door for additional clearance.

So true. I think as hobby users sometimes we get too caught up in the minutiae. If it takes me a little longer to do something with my tractor, it's actually happy time. I like being in my tractor, but if I was trying to make a living with it I would have a different opinion.

 

[RSR]

Well, I think that slope stability would be too tough of a target. But simple for & aft stability ought to be doable. It could be as simple as putting some counterweight numbers onto the loader tech sheet.

Come to think of it, I believe you are right and most tractors will lift the rear tires until they are counterweighted to prevent it. Commercial equipment doesn't tend to do that - but that is simply because they are deliberately pre-weighted one way or another. Having a backhoe on the rear does provide a very reliable counterweight.

First step in leveling the playing field for fore & aft stability would be to have the loader specs state safe lift with a recommended size counterweight. That's fair, and in fact I believe some already do that.
rScotty

Yeah, some industry standards on lift capacity (specified at a specific height and location - i.e., 12-18 inches forward of the pins where the loads center of mass is likely to be) and stability (weight that can be lifted at ground height without lifting the rear wheels) would be nice to have.

 

[Williy]

shooterdon do you the outside air open??
I keep my a/c set for inside air only. Perhaps
you need to clean your filters etc???
Get yourself a parts list of your tractor so you

know where all the goodies are and it will also
help if you want to repair anything as its all
laid out on how the parts go together.
You can get free manuals/repair manuals etc.

willy

 

[Williy]

Lift capacity??? when the ass end of my
tractor goes up in the air I know I'm over
doin it!!! Like to keep the wheels on the
ground!

willy

 

[Jstpssng]

I finally sat on a tractor with the two pedal system everyone talks about.

You actually LIKE that system?

 

[plastikosmd]

Yes

 

[Hozzie]

I personally think too much is made of the two pedal vs treadle pedal difference. You will get use to whichever you have. That isn't a reason to not buy one or the other in my view based on usage of both. Some hate the treadle, but it never bothered me as I simply leave my heel on the floor and either push down or lift up on the front peddle to go forward or backward. I never used my heel on the back pedal under normal circumstances. For me intention is not to have your entire foot on both pedals at the same time on a treadle, but I think many try to use it that way. If I had a long distance to go backwards, I use my heel on the back pedal with my toes on the floor. Not hard either way.

 

[TimberFarm]

I finally sat on a tractor with the two pedal system everyone talks about.

You actually LIKE that system?

Yeah. Especially compared to an old clutch and reach between my knees and grab the gear shift lever to go from 1,2,3,4, or R in a non-synchro transmission.

 

[TimberFarm]

I think I have pretty much made up my mind on a LS MT573.
Apparently, LS has the tractors, but no loaders to put on them.

 

[DaBear3428]

Lift capacity??? when the ass end of my
tractor goes up in the air I know I'm over
doin it!!! Like to keep the wheels on the
ground!

willy

4 wheel drive is overrated you are not living until only 1 is on the ground lol

 

[GSVette]

I finally sat on a tractor with the two pedal system everyone talks about.

You actually LIKE that system?

I drove both when I was evaluating tractors-I’m sure I could have gotten used to the Kubota treadle however the 2 pedal system was immediately comfortable for me.

I ended up with an XR4155HC based on my ‘bang for the buck’ spreadsheet evaluation.

 

[TimberFarm]

I drove both when I was evaluating tractors-I’m sure I could have gotten used to the Kubota treadle however the 2 pedal system was immediately comfortable for me.

I ended up with an XR4155HC based on my ‘bang for the buck’ spreadsheet evaluation.

I have the two pedals on my JD and I really like it.
Easy natural movement for me.

 

[Jstpssng]

I personally think too much is made of the two pedal vs treadle pedal difference. You will get use to whichever you have. That isn't a reason to not buy one or the other in my view based on usage of both. Some hate the treadle, but it never bothered me as I simply leave my heel on the floor and either push down or lift up on the front peddle to go forward or backward. I never used my heel on the back pedal under normal circumstances. For me intention is not to have your entire foot on both pedals at the same time on a treadle, but I think many try to use it that way. If I had a long distance to go backwards, I use my heel on the back pedal with my toes on the floor. Not hard either way.

The only reason I made my post is because so many people act like Kubota's system is the devil incarnated. I could probably get used to it, just like I got used to not having a gear box- well, sort of. It took me two years, and last winter I managed to ding the side of my company truck while plowing... because I instinctively grabbed for the clutch instead of taking my foot off the pedal.

I have just always wondered what the hoopla was. After sitting on that JD, I'm still wondering. Some people mention having size 15 boots; I do see where that could be awkward... with either system.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

It is really personal preference, like others have said, you'll get used to it. My first HST with dual pedals was easy to get accustomed to, literally within a couple of hours. Now I have a shuttle shift, which is even easier (clutch on left, brakes on right)(I say easier since I still have vehicles with manual trans).

I have a 25 y/o garden tractor (HST) with the treadle pedal..... I absolutely hate it.... just not normal for me. I use / move my toe down to the reverse part. It just is weird for me.