Choice: food or solar fields

[MossRoad]

Florida's Orange Crop Will Be the Smallest Since World War II

Experts cited the spread of a disease called citrus greening as contributing to the decline.

www.foodandwine.com

 

[kenmbz]

While greening is real, it is not the real cause.
Condos and strip malls have reduced the acreage massively.
The building boom also caused the Florida weather to change, leading to greening.

So the building boom caused reduced acreage and weather change leading to more diseases.

We used to drive and see miles of groves and sugar cane. Those areas are all housing, right up to and sometimes into the everglades.

 

[Fixastuff]

Everything I get Florida oranges/grape fruits I end up disappointed.

 

[3Ts]

When I moved to Florida in the early 80's we bought in a housing development that had been carved out of an orange grove. While we were there, an orange grove to the south had berms put in and flooded to create what was then known as the stick marsh to recharge the water table. It was great bass fishing! Huge bass 10# - 15# were common. Even had fishing guides operating there and I know of one instance where their clients were from Japan. However, due to the chemicals used in the orchard in the past, it was only catch & release. By the time we left, the orange grove to the north and west of us had been sold to a developer and houses, businesses, and schools were going in very rapidly. The land to the east had just been approved as a gravel pit with plans to turn it into a lake with lakeside homes once all the gravel had been taken out. Land lost to agriculture.

 

[Grumpycat]

Ag zoned land isn't light industrial. It has to do with farm land preservation in Indiana.

Why should others have any say in whether my "farm land" is "preserved"? Ancestors didn't ask permission when it was turned into farm land in the first place.

Also, did you read about the conflicts of interest in that case? That's typical of how things happen in this part of the country, my county as well. It's almost expected.

Contrived conflicts. Is bad enough when bureaucrats have jurisdiction over private farm land but would you rather have a bureaucrat making such decisions who doesn't own or operate any farm land of his own?

If someone offers me more to rent my land for a PV farm than I think it worth for traditional farming then I don't believe anyone should have the power to keep me from improving my income.

 

[Grumpycat]

From January SunTimes
If the estimate holds true, Florida would have smallest orange crop since the 1944-1945 season, when the state produced 42.3 million boxes, and California would surpass it in orange production for the first time in recent years.
From USDA:

https://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Florida/Publications/Citrus/Brochure/1011broc.pdf

Florida used to produce almost all of the oranges and grapefruits for the US when I was a kid. Cali had Valencia (Juice)as majority crop but switched to Naval in the 70's.

Florida peaked around 1980 with over 200 Million boxes, and that coresponds with the population growth spurt from then til today. This year 42Million.............

So you are saying Florida farmers who once planted orange orchards in pursuit of profit and a better life for their families should forever be forced to continue to produce oranges because you like oranges?

What if taste turns toward grapes?

 

[Gee Ray]

Maybe the government should make it more inviting to keep the land as farmland i.e. lower taxes or higher fees on the homes that are replacing the farmland. No taxes or fees when the land is passed from one generation to the next. I am sure better minds then mine could make it more inviting to keep the land in farming.

Also the government could give tax breaks to have low or no valued neighborhoods replaced with the new housing. In other words recycle the land instead of the urging of urban sprawl. Yes the rebuild will cause some problems such as people not wanting to move but just building over the farmland has problems also.

As to people are allowed to do what they want with your own land. We already have limits on the land. You can not build a heavy industrial plant in the middle of a subdivision. There are other examples. A bar next to a school. Or a prison in a family neighborhood.

In other words farmland is a national treasure that needs to be preserved for all.

 

[MossRoad]

Maybe the government should make it more inviting to keep the land as farmland i.e. lower taxes or higher fees on the homes that are replacing the farmland. No taxes or fees when the land is passed from one generation to the next. I am sure better minds then mine could make it more inviting to keep the land in farming.

Also the government could give tax breaks to have low or no valued neighborhoods replaced with the new housing. In other words recycle the land instead of the urging of urban sprawl. Yes the rebuild will cause some problems such as people not wanting to move but just building over the farmland has problems also.

As to people are allowed to do what they want with your own land. We already have limits on the land. You can not build a heavy industrial plant in the middle of a subdivision. There are other examples. A bar next to a school. Or a prison in a family neighborhood.

In other words farmland is a national treasure that needs to be preserved for all.

Uh, I have 20 acres of AG land that the taxes dropped to below $100 this year. My house went up.

Ag land is always taxed at a lower rate than residential.

 

[kenmbz]

This is land value, what farmer would not want to cash out for huge $ when a developer shows up?

 

[Oaktree]

But that is not what is being practiced in the cited example. No one is building a chicken house next to a subdivision. Not even building a bird-killing noisy wind turbine. Not even growing water-sucking fertilizer-runoff and pesticide-runoff corn. Just a bunch of glass panels angled at the sky. Something commonly celebrated when built next to mere “300 grand homes”.

But large scale solar farms are kind of ugly, and if you live to the south or southwest of it I'm sure the reflected glare can be quite annoying at certain times of day.
Dunno how it is where you live, but in much of the country $300 grand doesn't buy anything special for a house anymore.

Why should a zoning authority have any say over how the owner uses the land?

No restrictions in your subdivision?

Not just subdivisions, most jurisdictions have some sort of land-use ordinance. Even my small town has one, though most of it just deals with property line setbacks, minimum lot size, etc.

 

[Oaktree]

Florida used to produce almost all of the oranges and grapefruits for the US when I was a kid. Cali had Valencia (Juice)as majority crop but switched to Naval in the 70's.

Florida peaked around 1980 with over 200 Million boxes, and that coresponds with the population growth spurt from then til today. This year 42Million.............

Didn't Florida have a big problem in the 80s/90s with some citrus tree disease?

 

[MossRoad]

Why should others have any say in whether my "farm land" is "preserved"? ...

It was farmers that got the laws passed in the first place.

 

[fishdrivel]

Sure they started it, but they continued it thru out the decades, don't be blaming some fish for our taking all the water. Even if there was nothing getting back to the Pacific, those farmers would be in trouble.

Simply not true.
There is enough water in the delta to water all the cropland we have.
It's the pumps used on the South Delta that kills the little fishy's

 

[fishdrivel]

I parked in a parking garage for well over 20 years. The amount of damage, scraped paint, etc. on the concrete walls tells me that people parking under solar panels would cause excessive damage to the supports. You'd have to build them on pretty stout concrete supports. You'd also have to beef up roofing of most existing structures to handle the added load. Not just the weight of the panels and supports, but it would add a potentially huge wind load. I'd guess that the areas directly below the solar panels on flat roofs would see heavy water loads from rain as well. Rain is spread out on a flat roof. Put solar panel up there and the rain is no longer spread out, it's concentrated, just like where it comes off of your house roof if there's no gutter. All that has to be figured into an installation on an existing structure. New construction would be easier to deal with.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[PuffyC]

People can do with their land whatever they please. That's been the going theme here on TBN for decades. Now that the land isn't being used for something one doesn't approve of, they want to have a say in it.

It's not just land where people can't reconcile their beliefs.

Pollution and death from harvesting and burning petroleum? Who cares.
Somebody opens a lithium mine? Then it's "Won't someone think of the environment!?!"
Somebody wants to build a windmill? It's "Won't someone think of those poor birds!?!"

or

Long term, truly massive gov't subsidies for oil and gas production? Who cares.
A relatively small, short term subsidy for an electric vehicle? "The gov't shouldn't pick winners and losers, that's wrong!"

It goes on and on.

 

[Jstpssng]

But large scale solar farms are kind of ugly, and if you live to the south or southwest of it I'm sure the reflected glare can be quite annoying at certain times of day.
Dunno how it is where you live, but in much of the country $300 grand doesn't buy anything special for a house anymore.



Not just subdivisions, most jurisdictions have some sort of land-use ordinance. Even my small town has one, though most of it just deals with property line setbacks, minimum lot size, etc.

Every town here is subject to shoreland zoning. If they don't pass their own laws, they are still subject to the minimum state standards.

 

[cqaigy2]

Simply not true.
There is enough water in the delta to water all the cropland we have.
It's the pumps used on the South Delta that kills the little fishy's

Well all i can say is wishful thinking doesn't make it so.

 

[4570Man]

What I find interesting is the adamant feelings by most that a person should be allowed to do with their own land what they want to do, without government interference. Yet when said person (usually farmers) leases their land to solar or wind projects, the same people are outraged, and want government to stop it.

You can't have it both ways, folks.

If someone wants to spend their own money they can cover a billion acres in solar panels for all I care. But most of this green feel good garbage that’s not actually green is tax payer subsidized.

 

[Jstpssng]

"Food or Fuel"... that's how I felt yesterday when filling my diesel cans.

 

[Hay Dude]

Kalifornia is due to have rolling blackouts for up to 10% of it’s population due to charging of the surge of EV’s and closing of fossil fuel & nuke plants.

So let me get this straight, you randomly live in the dark and have no electricity? Isn’t that what 3rd world nations do?

Beautiful place, but sure glad I don’t have to live there.…