Tuff Torq K46 - rebuild or just drain/refill oil?

jpilk99 · May 4, 2022

First of all, thank you to everyone who chimed in. Quick update that I did first drain the oil and was considering loading the transmission back into the machine to see how she did (and if it was an improvement, that might have been just fine as the machine would run a good 20 minutes before the power faded. However that was in cooler weather and I'm sure in a month, if not next week, it will be in the 80s and then 90s. AND, when I took off that black plastic fill cap (the larger, 1" diameter one) and took out the magnet, it had filings.

So I figured, at this point, with the transmission already on my bench, and loving the machine and it's cutting ability, AND the fact that when I rebuilt my other K46 on a Husqvarna 24k54, the result was ...damn good --- so I ordered the rebuild kit from Tuff Torq.

Well, I just finished putting it all back together, changed the seals too - even tho they looked fine and did not appear to have any leakage stains around them - and about to put it back on the machine and: When I turn the pulley on the splined shaft atop the transmission, the shafts do not turn. Am I missing something? Shouldn't the turning of the pulley, where the drive belt loops around it, should the axles turn?? I have tried it with the "free wheel" arm pulled back - to allow the wheels to spin freely - as well as popped forward, for when driving the machine. I've spun the splined shaft in both directions. The tranny is filled properly with new Tuff Torq fluid..... Did I rebuild this thing wrong???? Did I somehow not position that liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle tiny "bypass pin" into the center case????? I put a little grease on it, as directed, and made sure it was positioned properly, along with the washer that goes behind the motor cylinder block ...but maybe something fell out of position??? It all seemed to go back together, (just like on the last rebuild I did, that resulted in a great/strong tranny).

Does the tranny need to be re-installed in the machine with the belt spinning that shaft and a much greater speed to actually get axles to move? Oh lordie, please don't tell me I have to take this tranny apart again - I don't even know what I'd be looking for.

nbpt100 · May 4, 2022

I think you have to actuate the drive lever on the transaxle. Also, you may have to bleed the air out. If you look on some of the Youtube video people put their drill or impact on the drive shaft and spin it fast for a minute or two to move the air out. Good choice in rebuilding

jpilk99 · May 4, 2022

nbpt100 said:
I think you have to actuate the drive lever on the transaxle. Also, you may have to bleed the air out. If you look on some of the Youtube video people put their drill or impact on the drive shaft and spin it fast for a minute or two to move the air out. Good choice in rebuilding

Thank you. So, if I load it back on machine and simply run it, this will likely bleed the air out and it will likely/possibly drive?

nbpt100 · May 4, 2022

jpilk99 said:
Thank you. So, if I load it back on machine and simply run it, this will likely bleed the air out and it will likely/possibly drive?

I believe so. Just go slow at first for a few minutes. Several Youtube videos show you how to bench bleed it. I do not recall which lever you have to actuate. You may want to watch one or two videos and try it. Just in case there is some issue. One thing you can easily mistake is putting one part in backwards and you flip forward and reverse. You want to make sure reverse is reverse and forward is forward. It is up to you. You have already done one of these so I assume you got it right. Good luck.

beenthere · May 4, 2022

jpilk99 said:
Thank you. So, if I load it back on machine and simply run it, this will likely bleed the air out and it will likely/possibly drive?

Then you will certainly find out.

tomplum · May 5, 2022

A half inch drill chuck doesn't really go on, but does bite enough to spin the input shaft. Actuate the directional control to bleed. It's such a bigger pain to have to add more fluid. If you purge it on the bench, the levels good, it's sealed and ready to go.

jaxs · May 5, 2022

Considering how difficult it is getting access to measure,drain and fill their transmissions I'd say TT never intended oil to be routinely checked and topped off much less changed. Same outcome as planned obsolescence but more profitable since it doesn't require retooling year to year. It's a shame they don't put a plug on bottom and accessible measure/fill port on top.
Regarding the Husy that doesn't like picking up deck load,you are on the right track with feathering choke. The problem lies with undersize passages in carb to help engine meet EPA standards. This has been a problem since offroad engines came under EPA regulation and has become increasingly difficult to deal with. To begin,drain fuel then add 1 pint fuel with the amount of Seafoam or other cleaner recommended for 1 gallon. Start and run engine long enough for treated fuel to reach carb then engage deck so that fuel is sucked into passage that basically does what governor traditionally does (momentarily supply rich mixture to engine). Let it rest an hour or two then repeat deck engagement a couple times. The goal is having cleaner clear passage that supplies momentary burst of fuel when engine load increases such as when suddenly hitting high,heavy grass while mowing. I might repeat this later in day or next day. If and when problem resolves,add 1 quart untreated fuel then use mower until most of treated fuel is consumed then fill with fuel treated as reccomended for routine use. If no improvement is noted after a few times,go to next proceedure. Most carbs on v twin engines are easy to remove upper shell without removing carb from engine. With upper shell off,spray carb cleaner with straw into all visible passages then cover to slow evaporation. I use a piece of fuel resistant gasket material held in place with a zip-loc bag of water. Repeat the spray & cover 3 or 4 times,reassemble and try it out. From there it's a decision to rebuild (I haven't have much luck with carbs built in recent years) or replace. On a side note. I don't even try cleaning Niki and other similar carbs and just buy a new one each time they mess up.

jpilk99 · May 5, 2022

jaxs said:
Considering how difficult it is getting access to measure,drain and fill their transmissions I'd say TT never intended oil to be routinely checked and topped off much less changed. Same outcome as planned obsolescence but more profitable since it doesn't require retooling year to year. It's a shame they don't put a plug on bottom and accessible measure/fill port on top.
Regarding the Husy that doesn't like picking up deck load,you are on the right track with feathering choke. The problem lies with undersize passages in carb to help engine meet EPA standards. This has been a problem since offroad engines came under EPA regulation and has become increasingly difficult to deal with. To begin,drain fuel then add 1 pint fuel with the amount of Seafoam or other cleaner recommended for 1 gallon. Start and run engine long enough for treated fuel to reach carb then engage deck so that fuel is sucked into passage that basically does what governor traditionally does (momentarily supply rich mixture to engine). Let it rest an hour or two then repeat deck engagement a couple times. The goal is having cleaner clear passage that supplies momentary burst of fuel when engine load increases such as when suddenly hitting high,heavy grass while mowing. I might repeat this later in day or next day. If and when problem resolves,add 1 quart untreated fuel then use mower until most of treated fuel is consumed then fill with fuel treated as reccomended for routine use. If no improvement is noted after a few times,go to next proceedure. Most carbs on v twin engines are easy to remove upper shell without removing carb from engine. With upper shell off,spray carb cleaner with straw into all visible passages then cover to slow evaporation. I use a piece of fuel resistant gasket material held in place with a zip-loc bag of water. Repeat the spray & cover 3 or 4 times,reassemble and try it out. From there it's a decision to rebuild (I haven't have much luck with carbs built in recent years) or replace. On a side note. I don't even try cleaning Niki and other similar carbs and just buy a new one each time they mess up.

Thanks a ton, Jaxs on both my TT rebuild and the situation on my Husqy. Very curious how TT designed them the way they did - i.e. no checking or -refilling. Some very cool recommendations on the mowing operation of my Husqy. I do a ton of small engine repair work and had never heard of the carb cleaner and plastic bag trick. Very cool. Ultimately, these are all efforts to clean the carb so it will perform properly under heavy load. And like you, given the low cost for adequate replacement carbs, there's really no point in trying to clean/rebuild a carb, in my humble opinion. I honestly do rebuilds only because I feel badly that I'm throwing the old ones into landfills when it's likely they could've been saved. I digress. I'll get the carb sorted and see how she does. I will be honest though, the John Deere PTO fires up that 54" mower deck like a hot knife through buttah as compared to the Husqy's 54" deck, even when the Husqy is running tip top. The JD has 2 more HP, but, not sure that's the total reason why it mows so much better. My thought is to use the JD to only mow the lawn, and the Husqy as my intermediate little "lawn tractor" with the cart attached. I have the mower deck off it at the moment, though I'm curious to see how the new bits (new fuel pump, ignition coils and plugs - with carb clean too) affect it's ability to mow. Nice to have back up!!!! Thanks again.

jaxs · May 5, 2022

I didn't understand if your comment about TT design was a question or statement. I only work on my equipment and a limited number for friends and neighbors. The few times I've did anything with a TT required far more disassembly than I think should be necessary for routine maintenance,hinch .

jpilk99 · May 5, 2022

UPDATE:

She no work. I topped off oil level to about 3/4" below fill line with brand new TT fluid they sent me. I spun the splined shaft 50 times, and the axles, to try and circulate fluid while it was on the bench. Installed on machine and it whines noticeably, right from the get go. Will not move foward or back. Whining stops when brake engaged. See video. Please enlighten me - very sad. Thank you. Jay

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tomplum · May 5, 2022

I didn't notice any kicking or cussing. Give that a try... I assume you have your wheel keys in place? When you pull out the bypass valve, any change in noise? That's a tough place to be in. Walking through the steps of something like that when you're not the guy that does it every day.

jpilk99 · May 5, 2022

tomplum said:
I didn't notice any kicking or cussing. Give that a try... I assume you have your wheel keys in place? When you pull out the bypass valve, any change in noise? That's a tough place to be in. Walking through the steps of something like that when you're not the guy that does it every day.

Hi Tomm. Not entirely sure what you mean, "kicking or cussing". The machine didn't move or even feel like it was attempting to move. Keys are in slots of axles with wheels - check!! No change when pulling/releasing bypass valve; (I assume this is the "free wheeling" lever at the very rear of the machine).

tomplum · May 5, 2022

I meant I might kick or cuss. Just makes me feel better.

It's tough for someone to say what is at play here as it was just apart rather than the symptoms of an existing unit. Their customer assistance center is real good. There may be some question you had in the back of your mind on assembly that might warrant an email to them.

jpilk99 · May 5, 2022

tomplum said:
I meant I might kick or cuss. Just makes me feel better. It's tough for someone to say what is at play here as it was just apart rather than the symptoms of an existing unit. Their customer assistance center is real good. There may be some question you had in the back of your mind on assembly that might warrant an email to them.

Okay, I think i follow. "Kick and cuss" as in the machine might have bucked (jumped violently forward or back)?

Not sure what I'd email TT, other than my post a few entries ago with my update that "she don't work". Maybe I'll try that. I have a feeling it's going to be: remove transmission, bring it back on bench, take it all apart again, .... I think I spent 4 or 5 hours doing all this the first time. Dang. Oh well, the bain of being a DIY'er I guess. Thanks Tomm

jaxs · May 5, 2022

I hate to bring it up but do you recall that mysterious c-clip you found on the floor?

jpilk99 · May 5, 2022

I don’t. (Memory must be gettin dusty). I’ll have to go back through and find it.

jpilk99 · May 6, 2022

jaxs said:
I hate to bring it up but do you recall that mysterious c-clip you found on the floor?

Hi Jaxs. I just went back through and read all 6 pages of this thread and don't see anywhere where I said anything about a "mysterious c-clip that I found on the floor". Are you possibly referring to a different post or different person?

kittyhawk · May 6, 2022

Last Spring I did a drain and refill on my JD X300 and X350 both had close to 200 hours on them when I changed the oil out. I used Mobil 1 20w50 and 8OZ of Lucas oil stabilizer and What a difference it made. I mow in Central TX and my place is flat and i occasionally pull a gorilla cart with my weed eater, fuel, clippers and a cooler to clean out fences lines. I can defiantly see a change when its hot they both just keep on trucking now, no more loss of speed or power.

jpilk99 · May 6, 2022

UPDATE: Dropped the transmission and checked oil level - spot on right where it was when I topped it on the bench.

Is there any chance that a TINY bit too much fluid in the tranny could cause this problem? Instead of being 3/4" below the rim of the fill hole, it's 1/2"... I can't imagine that would case the transmission to not work and whine like that.

If I have to take this apart again, I have no idea what I'll be looking for as I took my time putting it back together and thought I did it properly...... Yaks!!!!!