A windpower first

[Hay Dude]

The free market system did not build the US highway system and it never would have. The ferry boat operators at US river crossings were appalled that the government would build bridges over the rivers using taxpayer money. Exxon, Chevron, Marathon, etc. are all investing heavily in alternative energy research.

Why we're investing $15 billion in a lower-carbon future | ExxonMobil

At ExxonMobil, we develop and deploy solutions that meet society’s needs. Today, that means taking a leading role in providing the products that enable modern life, reducing carbon emissions and developing needed technologies to advance a lower-carbon emissions future.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

With respect to vehicles & energy systems (I agree in part with you-that was favoring roads over rivers) when that infrastructure system was built, it still allowed any type of vehicle be it gas, NG, or EV to travel on it. There were battery powered cars 50 & even 100 years ago. Gas won out.
I get your point, but the government favoring one type of propulsion or energy system over another through compensatory or punitive measures is different than a highway system upon which all may travel.
Just sayin since its a thread about energy systems….

 

[buckeyefarmer]

One of the problems of “alternative” energy isn’t just storage (when the sun doesn’t shine or the wind doesn’t blow). It’s that the price to the consumer is disconnected from real supply-demand market forces. (Where’s all the capitalists who believe in markets?)

When I use my oven, dryer, A/C during low demand and high supply times of the day and my neighbor uses the same amount of electricity during high demand and low supply times of the day
…and the price my utility payed to the power plant varied 5:1, yet the utility charges me and my neighbor the same rate.
Guess what, I just subsidized my neighbors electric bill! That’s socialism!
Real time demand metering and a real time market pricing is the answer and would revolutionize energy (and society, innovation, etc..) like the laptop computer did.

The problem with this argument is it cost the generators the same amount to produce the same amount of electric either time. The fact your utility fleeces you with either made up charges, or charges based on them not forecasting properly how much energy to purchase, isn’t my problem.

 

[Egon]

Back 75 years ago, Did the government force people heating homes with coal into changing to HH oil, or was it an improvement brought about by free markets? Did the government subsidize this change?

Is todays change from HH oil and NG to EV’s and wind/solar power from improvements in free markets, or government subsidies, mandates and pressures to force changes on us?

Biden threatening oil executives with imprisonment? Government making oil exploration more difficult? Fuel pipeline permits being denied?

Are those free market pressures to change? I dont think so.

Bettcha there were subsidies and other perks available.

 

[Hay Dude]

Bettcha there were subsidies and other perks available.

Be interesting to see them.
However, we all know for a fact, there are subsidies for solar/wind and punitive measures and threats of imprisonment/fines for coal/oil.
Its unfair and not free market Capitalism

 

[Egon]

With respect to vehicles & energy systems (I agree in part with you-that was favoring roads over rivers) when that infrastructure system was built, it still allowed any type of vehicle be it gas, NG, or EV to travel on it. There were battery powered cars 50 & even 100 years ago. Gas won out.
I get your point, but the government favoring one type of propulsion or energy system over another through compensatory or punitive measures is different than a highway system upon which all may travel.
Just sayin since its a thread about energy systems….

Your saying horses and wagons, bicycles etc. would be allowed on all highways?

 

[Hay Dude]

Your saying horses and wagons, bicycles etc. would be allowed on all highways?

Thats sort of a different subject than EV versus gas cars and solar/wind versus coal/NG power plants.
Around here they are! The Amish & Mennonites are all over them-except the 4 lane highways, like I-95. Too crazy

 

[Egon]

Be interesting to see them.
However, we all know for a fact, there are subsidies for solar/wind and punitive measures and threats of imprisonment/fines for coal/oil.
Its unfair and not free market Capitalism

Fossil Fuels Received $5.9 Trillion In Subsidies in 2020, Report Finds

e360.yale.edu

 

[Hay Dude]

Fossil Fuels Received $5.9 Trillion In Subsidies in 2020, Report Finds

e360.yale.edu

Joe Biden once called for jailing oil executives

Joe Biden is denying that he ever said he wanted to ban fracking and technically he is somewhat right, he said he wanted to eliminate fracking. See the difference? Yeah, neither do I. But anyway, w…

americaswatchtower.com

Economic Standard: Federal Subsidies for Electric Cars Should Not Be Increased - The American Consumer Institute

As the American economy transitions to more renewable forms of energy, federal and state subsidies for electric vehicles should be consigned to history. While electric vehicles (EVs) subsidies might appear to be a creative way to encourage consumers to shift away from petroleum-powered cars...

www.theamericanconsumer.org

$12,500 electric vehicle incentive survives Biden's updated 'Build Back Better' proposal

The reform to the federal electric vehicle incentive program, which includes an increased $12,500 EV incentive, has survived President Biden’s...

electrek.co

 

[jyoutz]

Coal was killed by natural gas, which is cleaner and cheaper and very abundant. The plants require less maintenance and are cheaper to operate. Utilities don’t want to mess with coal anymore no matter what the regulatory structure is. Coal is last century.

 

[Hay Dude]

Coal was killed by natural gas, which is cleaner and cheaper and very abundant. The plants require less maintenance and are cheaper to operate. Utilities don’t want to mess with coal anymore no matter what the regulatory structure is. Coal is last century.

BINGO! Give that lib, I mean “centrist” a prize!

Free markets and capitalism mostly helped NG replace coal. There were some government pressures-mostly air quality standards, but nothing like the authoritarianism pressures we see from the current administration.