Amazon?

[Pixguy]

I've been employee and employer and I never understood the feeling "I worked there for XX years and they owe me a pension" or on the flip side "I've employed them for XX years and they owe me more"
We worked for the company for what we thought was a fair rate and they in turn paid us for where they could make money.

 

[Jstpssng]

"I worked there for XX years and they owe me a pension

If that was part of the agreement while they were employed, then yes; the company does owe them a pension. Furthermore, if an employee strives to do his job and help the company thrive, some employers want to see them enjoy their retirement. The founder of the company I work for started out during the Great Depression, and was known to say “No employee of mine is going to stand on a bread line.” He implemented a retirement program in the mid-1950s, which had evolved into a 401k.

 

[Dftodd]

I've been employee and employer and I never understood the feeling "I worked there for XX years and they owe me a pension" or on the flip side "I've employed them for XX years and they owe me more"
We worked for the company for what we thought was a fair rate and they in turn paid us for where they could make money.

I worked for one company that offered a 401k and a pension.

They still track me down even though I haven't given them a forwarding address. They send me the pension disclosure info each year.

I only worked there 3 years and wouldn't qualify for the pension anyway.

 

[Pixguy]

If that was part of the agreement while they were employed, then yes; the company does owe them a pension. Furthermore, if an employee strives to do his job and help the company thrive, some employers want to see them enjoy their retirement. The founder of the company I work for started out during the Great Depression, and was known to say “No employee of mine is going to stand on a bread line.” He implemented a retirement program in the mid-1950s, which had evolved into a 401k.

I don't disagree that if that was part of the deal then yes, you're owed it and if an employer wants to offer it then great, you'll find employees staying longer.

 

[Torvy]

If that was part of the agreement while they were employed, then yes; the company does owe them a pension. Furthermore, if an employee strives to do his job and help the company thrive, some employers want to see them enjoy their retirement. The founder of the company I work for started out during the Great Depression, and was known to say “No employee of mine is going to stand on a bread line.” He implemented a retirement program in the mid-1950s, which had evolved into a 401k.

I guess I took his statement to mean the people who complain later that their employer didn't have a pension plan.

 

[JDZ735M]

Congress destroyed the company pension primarily through the advancement of the IRA in the 70s.

Our company had both plus profit sharing and bonuses.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Unfortunately too many companies were not funding the pensions, making them worthless. IRAs put it in your hand to control.

 

[jyoutz]

1st major company I worked for had a pension plan. It pales in comparison to the money I have accumulated in my 401k plans.

Hi so? Pensions aren’t based on a gross accumulation of funds; they are based on the monthly annuity. It often takes 2-3 million in a 401k to generate the same lifetime annuity as a typical pension.

 

[kenmbz]

I have a pension from one company, a wall street firm.
They loved 401Ks as it generates more trading income and fees.
Pensions could never do what 401Ks did to bolster Wall street in the 90's.
There was so much money flowing, didn't matter whether the funds were making money for the clients or not.

I have a 401K and it has done well, but the volatility and peoples poor choices, will make a lot of retirees have little but SS to fall back on.

Amazon provides benefits, one of the resons why you see small businesses desperate for people.

 

[Torvy]

Hi so? Pensions aren’t based on a gross accumulation of funds; they are based on the monthly annuity. It often takes 2-3 million in a 401k to generate the same lifetime annuity as a typical pension.

No such thing as a typical pension. My pension will only pay 300 per month. My 401k will produce 50k per year and it is nowhere near 2-3 million. The 401k is 100% protected from the company. The pensions...it depends.

Average rate of return in the stock market over the past 50 years is 10%. Even with basic fund management, that means 50k per 500k of investment...annually. 2-3 million would return 200-300k annually. Shrewd investors can do much better than average. Even if my pension paid 100% of my last 5 years of salary it would not touch what I could make with a 401k. The sad part is that I did not take full advantage of my 401k when I was young and dumb. Plus, I was a stay at home parent for 5 years with no income, so no 401k. Rationally, I should have twice what I have now.

 

[Oaktree]

The founder of the company I work for started out during the Great Depression, and was known to say “No employee of mine is going to stand on a bread line.” He implemented a retirement program in the mid-1950s, which had evolved into a 401k.

You're lucky. The forest products industry, at least in this part of northern New England is nowhere near what it was in the 70s, let alone the 50s. Lots of companies have gone toes up.

I don't disagree that if that was part of the deal then yes, you're owed it and if an employer wants to offer it then great, you'll find employees staying longer.

I'm not sure the two are related. Even we boomers were nowhere near as likely to stay with one company for years and years as our parents were. Younger generations even less so. Job hopping isn't seen negatively like it once was, and most have learned that it's pretty much a necessity if you want to move up.

 

[JethroB]

My last employer before I retired had an unusual retirement plan. The company owner & founder started it in the late 70’s. The company (him) contributed an amount equal to 10% of each employee’s gross wages annually. Employees weren’t allowed to contribute. The really unusual part we’re the hard-fast withdrawal rules (after qualify & vesting).

Must be over 60
Or become permanently disabled
Or die

No taking it with you if you leave, rolling it over, hardship reasons, cashing out early, borrowing against it, etc. No exceptions. He said many times, “It’s my money funding this so I make the rules. This is for your retirement.” Plan has assets of over $40 million today.

 

[JDZ735M]

It's not always what you make. It's often what you save that counts. Saving and investing consistently over time. Not making blunders like getting divorced, driving new trucks every year unless they are a tax deduction, expensive vacays, failing to save for kids education, etc. 401K's with other savings and proper investments has made many people 'everyday millionaires+'.

 

[Jstpssng]

My last employer before I retired had an unusual retirement plan. The company owner & founder started it in the late 70’s. The company (him) contributed an amount equal to 10% of each employee’s gross wages annually. Employees weren’t allowed to contribute. The really unusAl part we’re the hard-fast withdrawal rules (after qualify & vesting).

Must be over 60
Become permanently disabled
Or die

No taking it with you if you leave, rolling it over, hardship reasons, cashing out early, borrowing against it, etc. No exceptions. He said many times, “It’s my money funding this so I make the rules. This is for your retirement.” Plan has assets of over $40 million today.

That's a good way to reward people who stick with him, but also puts employees at the whim of the employer.

 

[JDZ735M]

That's a good way to reward people who stick with him, but also puts employees at the whim of the employer.

They are anyway.

 

[Torvy]

That's a good way to reward people who stick with him, but also puts employees at the whim of the employer.

Yes and no. I hear you, but since the employee is contributing zero, they are still free to deposit max IRA. This is just an incentive to stay, with no risk for employee.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Congress destroyed the company pension primarily through the advancement of the IRA in the 70s.

Why do you suppose union workers are the only ones with pensions?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Nobody "took away" my pension plan, nowhere I worked ever offered one. Other than government job, that perk went away with my parents' generation.
Other than a supermarket chain I worked at for a year or so while I was "between jobs", none of the companies I worked for in my entire career are still in business, so even if they did have a pension, it would be gone.

How about sick leave? Paid vacations? Paid holidays? What went away with your parents' generation was collective bargaining. You strolled barefoot through hell, and got burned.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I've been employee and employer and I never understood the feeling "I worked there for XX years and they owe me a pension" or on the flip side "I've employed them for XX years and they owe me more"
We worked for the company for what we thought was a fair rate and they in turn paid us for where they could make money.

A pension is not the company's money, it's your money, earned with every hour you put in. The money goes into a shared pension account, and you draw on that according to investment returns and actuarial tables. Employees with no representation are so whipped they don't even ask.

 

[Torvy]

A pension is not the company's money, it's your money, earned with every hour you put in. The money goes into a shared pension account, and you draw on that according to investment returns and actuarial tables. Employees with no representation are so whipped they don't even ask.

Those returns are considerably less than what can be made investing in 401k plans.