DPF Regeneration driving me crazy...

[IndyJay]

Diesel is not a byproduct of gasoline.

Diesel is a crude oil product that does not take as much energy to produce as gasoline.

While not necessarily a "by product", it is a co-product. The distillation process produces many streams; from very light hydrocarbons at the top to a heavy grease at the bottom, and everything in between. Any commercial distillation process must find a way to deal with all of the streams or the whole thing eventually eventually comes to a stop due to "no home". The prices of the saleable products must be adjusted to allow for environmentally friendly disposal of non-saleable waste streams.

Needless to say, every effort is made to find a use for everything coming off of the still, even if you must give it away. Similar to the pork industry's "everything but the squeal" model.

 

[groundcover]

Got to thinking about the pollution issues on these smaller diesels the other day. I have a Kubota 5240 that is pre emission that " they will have to pry out of my cold dead hands "!
Since that '08 machine I have bought three Kubota engines ( zero turn, mini track loader and tractor ) and have stayed under the 25 horse power threshold just to avoid the joys of emissions issues.
So just how much pollution do you think the billionaire boys rocket club is releasing burning K1 and LOX ? I would venture to guess that in the first three seconds of ignition of one of Bezos or Musks rockets more pollution is released than in a lifetime of me running my small diesel tractors!

 

[Hall00]

While not necessarily a "by product", it is a co-product. The distillation process produces many streams; from very light hydrocarbons at the top to a heavy grease at the bottom, and everything in between. Any commercial distillation process must find a way to deal with all of the streams or the whole thing eventually eventually comes to a stop due to "no home". The prices of the saleable products must be adjusted to allow for environmentally friendly disposal of non-saleable waste streams.

Needless to say, every effort is made to find a use for everything coming off of the still, even if you must give it away. Similar to the pork industry's "everything but the squeal" model.

It is one of dozens of products coming from a barrel of crude oil. The myth that diesel is a waste stream or not a wanted product is nonsense.

There is no "giving away" of anything coming out of a refinery. From the ethane to the coke, it all has value and depending on market conditions can be worth more than the mainstream products.

Molten sulfur is a great example, prices got so high a few months ago that it paid for 70% of the barrel of crude it came in. My refinery hit record rates and profits because the charge prices were so good.

 

[Jstpssng]

So just how much pollution do you think the billionaire boys rocket club is releasing burning K1 and LOX ? I would venture to guess that in the first three seconds of ignition of one of Bezos or Musks rockets more pollution is released than in a lifetime of me running my small diesel tractors!

You are absolutely correct yet for me that isn't the question. I do my best to reduce unnecessary waste and pollution, while still accomplishing what I want to do. (My tractor is idling outside right now, and soon I will have to start up my two stroke snowsled to move it.) Yet why let them run unnecessarily? I don't mind having emission controls on my machines because in the overall scheme of things, the only person using them benefits is me.
I also notice the stench when I get off my tractor and onto my father's L2800 which doesn't have them.

 

[IndyJay]

It is one of dozens of products coming from a barrel of crude oil. The myth that diesel is a waste stream or not a wanted product is nonsense.

There is no "giving away" of anything coming out of a refinery. From the ethane to the coke, it all has value and depending on market conditions can be worth more than the mainstream products.

Molten sulfur is a great example, prices got so high a few months ago that it paid for 70% of the barrel of crude it came in. My refinery hit record rates and profits because the charge prices were so good.

I did not say it was a waste stream. It is a co product. You can't feed crude and make only diesel, nor only gasoline. There is a fairly fixed ratio of what comes out. Demand drives price for each outstream.

Diesel once was cheaper than gasoline. That was when nearly everyone ran gas. When diesel pickups became popular the price of diesel went up due to higher demand.

 

[Jstpssng]

Diesel once was cheaper than gasoline. That was when nearly everyone ran gas. When diesel pickups became popular the price of diesel went up due to higher demand.

I believe that happened when low sulfur fuel was mandated... or perhaps it was just a coincidence the two occurred at the same time.

 

[Hall00]

I believe that happened when low sulfur fuel was mandated... or perhaps it was just a coincidence the two occurred at the same time.

The infrastructure investment needed to make <15ppm sulfur diesel is a huge reason diesel jumped.

Also Uncle Sug added more tax per gallon somewhere in the late 90s I think.

 

[Hall00]

I did not say it was a waste stream. It is a co product. You can't feed crude and make only diesel, nor only gasoline. There is a fairly fixed ratio of what comes out. Demand drives price for each outstream.

Diesel once was cheaper than gasoline. That was when nearly everyone ran gas. When diesel pickups became popular the price of diesel went up due to higher demand.

I didn't say you did.

The "byproduct of gasoline" crowd seem to think it is. Gasoline is easier to convert to more purified streams than diesel so the ratio isn't as fixed as you think. Those decisions are made by commercial business service types. We have lots of knobs to adjust the lighter end products in the refinery to make whatever the powers that be decide.

 

[Tony H]

Got to thinking about the pollution issues on these smaller diesels the other day. I have a Kubota 5240 that is pre emission that " they will have to pry out of my cold dead hands "!
Since that '08 machine I have bought three Kubota engines ( zero turn, mini track loader and tractor ) and have stayed under the 25 horse power threshold just to avoid the joys of emissions issues.
So just how much pollution do you think the billionaire boys rocket club is releasing burning K1 and LOX ? I would venture to guess that in the first three seconds of ignition of one of Bezos or Musks rockets more pollution is released than in a lifetime of me running my small diesel tractors!

And how much Jet fuel is dumped from each place before landing?

 

[IndyJay]

I believe that happened when low sulfur fuel was mandated... or perhaps it was just a coincidence the two occurred at the same time.

Actually I think that happened because diesel was a lot cheaper than gasoline. I think the low sulfur mandates came along because of the increased use of diesel with small trucks.

 

[Hilbilly]

I have a 2019 Kubota L6060 with a DPF and was concerned about that system when I bought it, simply because of all the negative information on this forum. My personal experience has been as follows:
1) running the tractor at high rpms does not reduce the time between regens
2) working it under a load, will reduce the regen times and may actually lower the soot levels. I have seen my soot levels drop significantly while using the snowblower while traveling uphill. I suspect that if the tractor is worked hard all the time, it may never regen.
2) when the tractor wants to do a regen, let it and if it calls for more rpms then give it more. Just keep doing whatever you are doing!
3) The only parked regen I have ever done was not actually a "parked regen" because I did not stop the regen, I simply parked the tractor when it started a regen and left it until it was done. Salesman told me that all the problems he ever heard of with regens were caused by the operater not following the proper protocol or stopping regens and not responding properly.
4) I let it idle between operations, just like any tractor.
5) Mine is HST and I run it at around 1500 rpms for most operations (with the auto throttle advance engaged)
5) I have 510 hrs on this tractor and not had any issues with the regen process.

After almost 3 years of use, I have determined the best way to use this tractor is the same way I used my previous tractor and just ignore the Regen process, until I see a flashing light that tells me I need to increase rpm's. I then increase the rpm's until the flashing stops and continue working. I will let the tractor idle when I get out to do something.

For me, this is a non issue.

Before I bought this tractor, I was told the biggest problem with these DPF systems is operator error. Maybe I got lucky or other tractor makes / models are prone to issues.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
My biggest problem was figuring out what to do the first time that it wanted to regen. Of course I was 1/4 mile from the house where my manual was, and the decal on the machine may as well have been duck footprints. By the time I figured out what to do it did need a parked regen... the only one I’ve had in 600 hours.

 

[DieselBound]

Well, mine is coming on after 5-6 hours, basically every other day when going hard, so its a bit much. Doesnt seem normal to me, but manual doesnt say anything on how to reduce it...

Haven't read through all the posts yet, but you've probably got an injector issue (too rich, dumping excessive fuel).

 

[DieselBound]

Curious what folks' manuals say for operating RPMs during regens. Kioti says 1,800 rpm (or above): this is hardly "high" RPMs. In 720 hrs I think I've had two parked regens* (one for sure [when relatively new]- other one might have been that I had to get out of the tractor to do stuff -usually stay in the tractor and keep working). Can't say how often my Kioti regens, but it's rather infrequent and I usually still have work I can do.

* I'm wanting to say that the parked-regen process actually cycles engine RPMs a bit, and it's way that you know it's different from a passive regen.

Regarding ULSD, reduction in sulfur is actually better for engines. See: sulfuric acid.

 

[Jstpssng]

Regarding ULSD, reduction in sulfur is actually better for engines. See: sulfuric acid.

Even my old 1984 L275 smoked a lot less after the fuel change, and that looked like a coal burner at times.

 

[RjCorazza]

My Kubota manual is vague about rpm's...
"Prohibition of unnecessary idling operation Generally, the lower the engine speed, the lower the exhaust gas temperature is, so the PM contained in exhaust gas will not be burnt, and begins to accumulate. Therefore, don't idle unnecessarily."

I have the idle set at 1500 rpm or so, and usually shut the tractor off if it's just going to be sitting for 5-10 minutes.

The manual is very specific about the various regeneration stages, but there is no way I'm going to remember all the levels, actions, beeps, flashing light sequences.
My take for the Kubota Regen is:
- Don't idle for long periods
- Don't unnecessarily use the DPF Inhibit switch
- Watch for the Regen and Raise RPM lights
- When the machine starts beeping, the clock is ticking.

My regens have always been smooth, totally unremarkable, and all done while using the tractor. My dash reports the particulate matter %, so I have a good idea when it's going to regen, and I save small projects to make sure I have work to do for the 15 minute process.

 

[Reddogs]

Haven't read through all the posts yet, but you've probably got an injector issue (too rich, dumping excessive fuel).

Can fuel treatment help that or you have to take it to the dealer?

 

[Reddogs]

My Kubota manual is vague about rpm's...
"Prohibition of unnecessary idling operation Generally, the lower the engine speed, the lower the exhaust gas temperature is, so the PM contained in exhaust gas will not be burnt, and begins to accumulate. Therefore, don't idle unnecessarily."

I have the idle set at 1500 rpm or so, and usually shut the tractor off if it's just going to be sitting for 5-10 minutes.

The manual is very specific about the various regeneration stages, but there is no way I'm going to remember all the levels, actions, beeps, flashing light sequences.
My take for the Kubota Regen is:
- Don't idle for long periods
- Don't unnecessarily use the DPF Inhibit switch
- Watch for the Regen and Raise RPM lights
- When the machine starts beeping, the clock is ticking.

My regens have always been smooth, totally unremarkable, and all done while using the tractor. My dash reports the particulate matter %, so I have a good idea when it's going to regen, and I save small projects to make sure I have work to do for the 15 minute process.

I am trying to raise it up above 1500 rpms now when doing any work, to see if that makes a difference. So far, no regens..

 

[oosik]

I just wonder - are all these added steps required to reduce/effect Regen actually reducing overall pollution. This entire process of regeneration would seem to be counter productive.

 

[Reddogs]

I just wonder - are all these added steps required to reduce/effect Regen actually reducing overall pollution. This entire process of regeneration would seem to be counter productive.

It never was about 'pollution', its all about control, and when they come out with 'electric tractors' it will become clear.....