Resolving self leveling dislike

[Boss 302]

After doing much research, measuring and comparing I have finally decided to eliminate the dreaded self-leveling (personal opinion only) loader function on my RX6010, I ordered 2 curl cylinders today that should work as planned. I will have to fab some brackets in order to accommodate the new pin position of the shorter cylinders. I plan on taking pictures and will post as it progresses. Also does anyone have recommendation on where I can purchase a good quality paint that matches the Kioti orange? I see where Ag Parts offers an aerosol can, has anyone tried it?

 

[perrypower]

Would you care to explain and help us understand your personal opinion on the self leveling loader?

As far as the paint, an aerosol can from your local dealer will be about $20, but you could probably take an orange piece off your tractor and take to a paint shop to have them match it for you.

 

[Boss 302]

Thanks for the paint suggestions, the main reason I do not like the self-leveling loader is due to the very limited roll back. If you are moving round bales of hay on sloped land and traveling down the slope the bales will fall off due to a very limited roll back. Another reason is whenever you are moving gravel or dirt you are not able to heap the bucket with the material and you will still lose some of the material while moving and if it's on a slope it's worse. The only thing I have found positive about the self-leveling is when I am using my forks, otherwise it has no value add in the types of work that I do.

 

[workinonit]

I've never seen a Kioti MSL loader but I know that it would be extremely involved to could convert mine. Not even sure it could be done. Mine rolls back plenty far enough to heap a bucket. Not sure about bales rolling off. I would have thought you would do that with a hay spear anyway.

 

[perrypower]

Thanks for the paint suggestions, the main reason I do not like the self-leveling loader is due to the very limited roll back. If you are moving round bales of hay on sloped land and traveling down the slope the bales will fall off due to a very limited roll back. Another reason is whenever you are moving gravel or dirt you are not able to heap the bucket with the material and you will still lose some of the material while moving and if it's on a slope it's worse. The only thing I have found positive about the self-leveling is when I am using my forks, otherwise it has no value add in the types of work that I do.

Hmm, interesting!

 

[npalen]

Thanks for the paint suggestions, the main reason I do not like the self-leveling loader is due to the very limited roll back. If you are moving round bales of hay on sloped land and traveling down the slope the bales will fall off due to a very limited roll back. Another reason is whenever you are moving gravel or dirt you are not able to heap the bucket with the material and you will still lose some of the material while moving and if it's on a slope it's worse. The only thing I have found positive about the self-leveling is when I am using my forks, otherwise it has no value add in the types of work that I do.

I'm curious to learn more about why the rollback angle is limited on the self-leveling as I've heard this complaint in the past. I see that the tractordata.com shows a rollback angle of 44 degrees but I wonder if this is in the lowered or raised position?

I wonder if pivot hole location(s) in the SL linkage could be modified to give more rollback angle? Might be something to consider first as it sounds like you may be doing some modifying either way.

 

[Boss 302]

No, the pivot pin is in the same place as a non-self-level, I use a hay spear for round bales, and they still want to come off. The bucket angle on my self-leveler when at full height is 90 degrees which is way more than needed. I checked a non-self-leveling bucket at full height, it was 50 degrees which makes more sense. I think that the 44 degree rollback angle for a self-leveling bucket sounds about right and that is what limits the amount of material that the bucket will hold without falling out. On a non-self-leveling bucket at full rollback when on the ground the top of the bucket is parallel with the ground that's why you can heap the bucket and keep more material in the bucket when moving, it also means that you have to be mindful to operate the curl function as the bucket raises so the material won't fall out on the hood of the tractor. Something else that I have learned in this process is that while the curl cylinders are extremely long (self-leveling) the stroke is only 14 inches and most of the bucket curl function is accomplished by the mechanical arms that actually push the curl cylinders down as the loader arms raise.

 

[npalen]

A side view pic of your loader in the lowered and raised positions and bucket cylinders extended and retractd would be very helpful to understand the issue. I realize that may not be possible or of interest at this point.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[ovrszd]

Following this thread. Anxious to see the alteration!!! Keep us informed please!!!

 

[Boss 302]

I am open to any and all suggestions as I am researching this as I go, I want to make sure I gather all of the info up front because once you start welding the new cylinder brackets you are kind of at a point of no return. The plan is to fabricate a couple of temporary cylinder supports for mockup so I can test everything before I start the welding process. I appreciate all of the wisdom that you guys have to offer, I will post pics and update as I go.

 

[Xfaxman]

If I were in this situation I would modify the bale spear for more roll back.

 

[IndyJay]

If I were in this situation I would modify the bale spear for more roll back.

Killjoy!

 

[npalen]

This pic appears to show that the bucket has more than adequate dump angle so wondering why the rear leveling links couldn't be shortened to give more rollback when bucket is down. Better yet would be rear links with threaded adjustment (turnbuckles?) to find the sweet spot.

I'm sure there are considerations with how far the bucket and linkage can rotate on the mounting pins and also realize that a scaled layout of the entire linkage would be needed to assure clearances at each end of the bucket and lift cylinders strokes.

As a retired farm machinery designer, I would enjoy doing an Autocad layout but would need a lot of measurements to work with.

 

[LouNY]

I don't know what type of bale spear you have.
My Self Leveling loader curls the bottom bucket back about 45 degrees,
a bale spiked at zero and curled back to 45 isn't going to fall off.
Unless that is one of the slide on bale spears that drops down considerable below the base of the bucket.
Even if it only curled back 30 degrees a bale shouldn't slide off.

 

[ptsg]

This pic appears to show that the bucket has more than adequate dump angle so wondering why the rear leveling links couldn't be shortened to give more rollback when bucket is down. Better yet would be rear links with threaded adjustment (turnbuckles?) to find the sweet spot.

I'm sure there are considerations with how far the bucket and linkage can rotate on the mounting pins and also realize that a scaled layout of the entire linkage would be needed to assure clearances at each end of the bucket and lift cylinders strokes.

As a retired farm machinery designer, I would enjoy doing an Autocad layout but would need a lot of measurements to work with.

Mechanical self leveling loaders usually won't curl as much as the non self leveling. This is one of the reasons why some manufacturers are now using two extra cylinders mounted above the lift cylinders to make for hydraulic self leveling.

However, I think in this case, it may have been a slight flaw in the design of this particular loader. I've suggested to the OP on another thread regarding the same issue, that he could also shorten the curl cylinders at the base, basically cut a little bit of the extension they weld on the back of the cylinder.

 

[Xfaxman]

This pic appears to show that the bucket has more than adequate dump angle so wondering why the rear leveling links couldn't be shortened to give more rollback when bucket is down. Better yet would be rear links with threaded adjustment (turnbuckles?) to find the sweet spot.

Yep, I agree, shortening those links should work:

 

[npalen]

Mechanical self leveling loaders usually won't curl as much as the non self leveling. This is one of the reasons why some manufacturers are now using two extra cylinders mounted above the lift cylinders to make for hydraulic self leveling.

However, I think in this case, it may have been a slight flaw in the design of this particular loader. I've suggested to the OP on another thread regarding the same issue, that he could also shorten the curl cylinders at the base, basically cut a little bit of the extension they weld on the back of the cylinder.

Mechanical self leveling loaders usually won't curl as much as the non self leveling.

I've heard that said in the past and that's why I would like to do a layout to see where the limitations lie.

Edit: It appears that the "bolt-on" triangular links at the base of the bucket cylinders could be redesigned to position where the min and max positions of the bucket curl occur as well as the total amount of curl "throw". That mod, if feasible, could be done without changing cylinders or any other components.

 

[ptsg]

Mechanical self leveling loaders usually won't curl as much as the non self leveling.

I've heard that said in the past and that's why I would like to do a layout to see where the limitations lie.

Edit: It appears that the "bolt-on" triangular links at the base of the bucket cylinders could be redesigned to position where the min and max positions of the bucket curl occur as well as the total amount of curl "throw". That mod, if feasible, could be done without changing cylinders or any other components.

I've seen loaders that offered two pivot locations on those triangular plates. One position would give more curl and less dump, while the other position would be the opposite. Actually, there was a tractor with a loader like this for sale last week but I didn't think about saving a picture of that before the tractor was sold.

Cutting the links that Xfaxman pointed out in post #16 may or may not work, because of the way the linkage sits when the loader is lowered all the way.

 

[CADplans]

If you simply remove the upper bar that connects to the bucket cylinder rotating mount bracket,,
then lock the bracket so that it no longer moves,,
you will have eliminated the self leveling,, no purchase are necessary.

The "lock" choice can be as easy as a couple welding rods,, or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[ovrszd]

I've seen loaders that offered two pivot locations on those triangular plates. One position would give more curl and less dump, while the other position would be the opposite. Actually, there was a tractor with a loader like this for sale last week but I didn't think about saving a picture of that before the tractor was sold.

Cutting the links that Xfaxman pointed out in post #16 may or may not work, because of the way the linkage sits when the loader is lowered all the way.

View attachment 727352

Always thinking, that's what I like about you Pedro. And you are right!!!