Bad news big repair

[5030]

I use it on others, but not recommended by Kubota

Because of the glo plugs. You cab grenade an engine if the glo plugs set off the either. Yours ain't working. No issue

 

[5030]

I NEVER use starting fluid on a diesel engine! It ruins the rings in short order!

I disagree 100%. Modern starting either has upper cylinder lubricant in it. If that was the case, all the 56 Cats we ran in our big trucks would have been shot the first winter.

Your comment is without merit.

 

[LittleBill21]

Where do you live in PA? I’m stumped and could use some help. Stop on over!

I do not have the blinking glow plug indicator. There’s no light at all, but that’s an M130x that appears to have a grid heater. My shop manual is not with me, it’s at my shop, or I could post pics of pages.

Near Scranton PA. But I am out of town for work for a couple weeks..

That said this is pretty simple, pull the relay out. set your meter to dc volt. find pin 5, and pin 3 (from the picture above of the relay pg5.jpg), put red side on 3 and black on 5, turn the key or whatever it takes it to cycle the glowplugs. see if the meter reads 12v. .

if it does, then move the red probe to pin 4 and the black probe to chassis ground. see if you have 12v.

 

[ranger danger]

I disagree 100%. Modern starting either has upper cylinder lubricant in it. If that was the case, all the 56 Cats we ran in our big trucks would have been shot the first winter.

Your comment is without merit.

Well then I guess my 38 years and 3+ million "legal" miles in a big rig along with 10 years as a heavy diesel mechanic are of no value to this conversation. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[rScotty]

Our JD310 came from the factory with an ether injector system built right onto the engine. It was an optional extra on the original build sheet. They even put a button on the dash to make it convenient to use ether injection.

BTW, the JD system uses standard cans. The original can is still there.
I've never used it. Don't believe in it. But apparently there are those who do..... including the JD engineers.

It doesn't need any help in cold weather. Down to around zero it starts just up just fine - but I try to plug in the block heater when temps are below about 30F.
rScotty

 

[RickB]

It helps to be smarter than a $4 aerosol can.
I have used ether as a last resort and would again. Sometimes there are limited options and a machine HAS to run. Ether has never caused me any problems. But I certainly have seen serious engine problems that ether has caused.

 

[MossRoad]

When I worked at the airport, we had several pieces of aircraft support equipment that had Detroit diesel engines with built-in push button ether starting assist for cold weather. Not used very often, but did have to replace the screw-on cans a couple times over the years.

 

[DieselBound]

How were the GPs tested? (I generally do a simple ohm test and it's been reliable enough for me, but many folks swear that you have to actually apply a load to them to test.)

If you pop off the connection on the GPs what happens when you go to start? It would be nice if you could trigger a code and see that you've done so. Really just looking to see what logic is happening.

I'm assuming that the ground for the GPs is good. Not sure how it would show up if not.

My MKIV VW TDIs rely on temperature sensors to determine if they need to operate. On manual cars they even have GPs for the cooling system: coolant GPs. Not sure of the full circuit logic on these. I DO know that unplugging temperature sensors can help in forcing GPs to operate: it's a default mode. And the coolant temperature sensor has two circuits, one that feeds the ECU and one that feeds the dash gauge; each circuit has the ability to act up- usually it's the circuit to the gauge, causes the gauge to go wacky, but the circuit to the ECU is fine and the engine therefore runs w/o issue: I have a multi-gauge plugged into my ODBII port for providing a bunch of readouts and can see the temps reported to/by the ECU (no panic if the dash gauge shows bad stuff is happening!).

Regarding ECU and operation, something like GPs isn't going to be part of any no-start logic (though, in reality, when not working, they can cause your engine to not start ). GPs are mostly emissions related stuff: in my TDIs pretty much just failures of emissions stuff will trigger standard ODBII codes: VW will log other stuff that's proprietary, but GPs ain't in this set.

If it ever came down to it one could install a timer circuit that would put the necessary resistance on the relay [served/controlled by the ECU] that drives the GPs, do this when adding on a manual circuit to do the actual activation of the GPs.

As has been noted, the connections to/from the ECU can be a suspect: many harness connections are less than stellar at keeping out moisture: though possible that only one pin (for GP circuit) could be problematic I'm thinking that this would be kind of rare, a possibility, but less probable. If nothing else it can be considered as a preventative maintenance measure. Clean it all up with DeoxIT.

 

[GSVette]

Our JD310 came from the factory with an ether injector system built right onto the engine. It was an optional extra on the original build sheet. They even put a button on the dash to make it convenient to use ether injection.

BTW, the JD system uses standard cans. The original can is still there.
I've never used it. Don't believe in it. But apparently there are those who do..... including the JD engineers.

It doesn't need any help in cold weather. Down to around zero it starts just up just fine - but I try to plug in the block heater when temps are below about 30F.
rScotty

My Case 580D has the optional cold start ether injection system too-uses a can like yours-I’ve never used mine either.

 

[newbury]

Somewhere along my learning curve I remember Ether/Gas - OK, Ether/Diesel - no-no.
But I have been successful with WD-40 on diesels. I've one Ford 7.3 that I uses it on annually.

 

[Hay Dude]

Did I mention there no glow plug light on dash cluster? It’s not a dummy light. I don’t think it’ll glow unless glow plugs glow.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think mine is 35, but not positive.
It doesn’t work at any temperature anyway

 

[Paystar]

Somewhere along my learning curve I remember Ether/Gas - OK, Ether/Diesel - no-no.
But I have been successful with WD-40 on diesels. I've one Ford 7.3 that I uses it on annually.

That's why I have used this in the past on the older big trucks. It has a lubricant in it.

https://www.kleenflo.com/products/730.html

 

[newbury]

That's why I have used this in the past on the older big trucks. It has a lubricant in it.

https://www.kleenflo.com/products/730.html

That is nice but I only use about 20 squirts of WD40 per year at the most, and I buy WD40 by the case every few years when it goes on sale. Down in Mississippi I use a lot of Water Displacement formula 40 for rust prevention on exposed metal, that and sheep lanolin (Fluid Film and Woolwax) comprise my main ammunition against rust.
I have not tried Fluid Film for a starting fluid but I don't think it would work well

 

[WranglerX]

I use "cheap" carburetor cleaner on some of my gas engines (very stubborn B&S twin in mower) its less volatile than ether based fluids there for less explosive in firing, but does well... Not sure how it would respond in diesels as my tractor does have functioning GP's....

 

[nightowl490]

Purchased my M135X in warmer months almost 3 years ago (April 2019). Never thought to see if the glow plugs worked. They actually won’t work if it’s over 41*.
Last winter, I realized the glow plugs weren’t working. Ohmed out wires, looked at wiring for mice damage, water damage, bad grounds, etc. Ohmed out wiring. Thats when I learned the glow plug system in larger kubotas is more complex than I thought. All 4 glow plugs passed electrical testing.
The glow plugs have 2 sensors one for air temp, one for water temp. The ignition switch is also part of the circuit. Then there are 2 relays and a fuse. All of this is controlled by the ECU. Last winter, I replaced
Key switch
water temp sensor
air temp sensor
both relays
fuse

Still no glow plugs. With nothing left to replace or test, I succumbed to a very reputable Kubota dealer. They basically did all the same things I did and replaced one of the new sensors I had already placed.
Still nothing. They called Kubotas double secret probation hotline and Kubota thinks it’s the ECU.

ECU price $6000
ECU Not returnable and no guarantee it will fix glow plugs.

So I’m out of answers. Any thoughts on other possible avenues to pursue?

Unless your absolutely sick over it not working properly (In the tune of $6k Sick...). $50 Katz Block Heater...... Problem solved.

 

[stso9d]

$6000 versus a hard wire... I sure don't need to spend much time on that decision....

 

[Unhitched]

to overcome the the ECU derating the motor because the sensors are derated the easiest way would be to find a used glow plug and plug it into the ECU while the glow plug that is actually in the motor is run off a manual switch, if you were really tricky you could figure out what the resistance of the sensor is and just wire in the a resistor so the computer thinks there is a glow plug there. me I would just find another glow plug and it in, actually I would just suck it up and pay for the ECU, or just keep running it the way it is, maybe put a block heater in it to help out on the cold days.

 

[RichNJKubota]

Did you ohm out all the wires back to the ECU connector? I think you mentioned looking for corrosion on the ECU connector?
I work on old cars and I frequently have to ohm out wiring back to the ECU. Between the ECU and a sensor there may be an intermediate connector. Most connectors these days have rubber seals so water can't get into the connector. But I've seen where the rubber seal has failed, water gets in and the connection is not good. Even though the outside of the connector can look new.
Disconnect the battery and ohm out the circuits. If you find corrosion use an appropriately sized jewelers screwdriver or other tool to carefully clean the contacts. Spray electrical contact cleaner also works well. Some of these contact cleaners will leave a slight oil film which will help in stopping future corrosion.
If you should decide to manually control the glow plugs I suggest you totally isolate the glow plug circuit from the ECU so that the ECU does not get damaged in any way. But I would really recommend fixing it correctly. I rarely ever see a bad ECU in the cars I work on.

 

[Alabastershame]

Seems like you could tie into the pos. Feed to the first relay to a solenoid. Tie into the outgoing of the last relay for the other solenoid post. Activated with a push button from cab. I dont see how the computer would be affected as all the factory wiring would remain in place and the addons would be piggybacked. I would try it.