John Deere rep going to take tractor

[ovrszd]

Ha! JD 50hp and under use to be quality decades ago. That isn't the case today and that's a fact.

Yeah, that's why their market share is so low.

 

[ovrszd]

Interesting.

(Off topic)

Have two old gold pocket time pieces which need new crystals.

Have been unable to locate replacement crystals.

The few who claim to know where to get them require me to ship them the watches. (NOT)

Trust is Gone with the Wind.

Any suggestions?

Maybe start a thread about it?

 

[ovrszd]

Not saying this is the case here. But you gotta love people that are so impatient to buy, agree to a deal, then find a better deal and try to undo or ammend the first.

Over the years I've read dozens of threads here on TBN exactly like that. Amazing how many members dog pile on the dealer/salesman/product.

 

[ovrszd]

Last week I called my local orange dealer about getting a rear blade. I got a price, but did not commit to buying it. The price was okay based on the limited information I had. On Saturday I drove over to look at it. The salesman, not the one I had talked to (he was not there), said they had two. I had to ask to see them. They were still in the crate and not really possible to see. I knew more about the blade than the salesman did. I said it looked like some assembly was required. He said yeah they could go that, and then went into a song and dance about how they could even attach it to my tractor. Not sure why he felt that was necessary.

I asked how long it would take to get assembled. Another song and dance, but it wasn't going to be ready for me to pick up that day. So there went my plans, but I still sort of wanted it. So I asked for the price. He asked what the other guy said. Why did that matter? Anyway I told him $900, which was the price I was quoted. That is double what I paid for the one I got from TSC, but it doesn't have tilt. So he goes to his computer and the price is now $1000. I said it was $900 yesterday. He said he could take a dollar off and sell it for $999. Since I talked on the phone I didn't have anything in writing. I also didn't think I needed anything. I wasn't asking for a deal. I just said what is your price over the phone. He didn't say none hundred and something he said $900. I thought that was a bit high, but was willing to pay it. But the extra $100 was too far for me to go. So I thanked him for wasting my time and I don't believe I will ever go back there. I stopped on the way home and called the other Kubota dealer. They were busy, but said they had one and it was $930. They were supposed to call me back, but didn't. I get that there may not be a lot of profit on a $900 blade. But, why have such an inefficient sales method. I have to call someone and get them to tell me the price. When I go there nothing has a price on it and no one there seems capable or willing to take the time to help me get what I need/want.

TSC has its issues, but at least I can see price and inventory and while I had to drive a ways out of my way, I found a store that had stock that I could see the whole blade and make the decision to purchase. It has been fine. I really want tilt to deal with the edges of my driveway, so I am stuck.

EA is 3 months out and they charge the CC on order but say they won't ship for 12 weeks. It might be good, but I am outside the free shipping area so another $250-300 for shipping makes it much less desirable.

While COVID-19 might have made it worse, I have never found tractor dealers very willing/able to help me.

Assembling a blade might take an hour if you read the instructions front to back. Being "that guy" I would have asked for an out the door price on the crated blade? Might have paid yourself some good money to spend that hour.

 

[crazyal]

I tried to buy a Deere but the closest dealer mainly sold large farm equipment and just didn't have time to answer my questions. Most of the smaller brands weren't even around here at the time except for Kioti. The one dealer just got the line, knew nothing about it, and by the time I was ready to buy they no longer were selling them. That left Kubota and NH. Two brands to compare made it much easier than 5 or 6.

5 years later and I decided I was going to move on from my tired old MTD riding mower and found a less than one year old Deere at a dealer a couple hours away for a good price. Day and night difference. This guy knew what I was going to buy but still showed me several new ones. The dealer was selling the tractor under consignment so they had to call the owner and see if they accepted my offer. They easily could have just let me stand in the corner and wait but he took the time knowing that the only chance to sell a new tractor was down the road.

A year later I had a warranty issue on it and went to a closer Deere dealer that also specialized in small to CUT sized tractors. They were great. They acted like I was a long time customer even though I hadn't bought a thing from them. They even said the seat, which was damaged before I bought it because someone put a strap across it to hold it down would be covered. But told me to wait until the warranty was almost over then bring it in. When I did they went over it and anything that would be covered they fixed. I asked why. They said that they wanted me to come back someday when I'm ready for a new one and give them a chance.

A good or bad dealer or salesman can make or break a sale. They can also help or hurt the brand. If Deere does keep track of bids by different dealers then they are really hurting the brand if they treat a potential customer poorly because they go to a different dealer. I get dealers having an exclusive area but when the customer goes outside of that area then the brand has to accept that the customer likes the brand but there's an issue with the first dealer. Punishing the customer and the second dealer is not smart business.

 

[Username Taken]

Yeah, that's why their market share is so low.

Under 50HP, it is.

And worldwide, Mahindra is kicking their butts handily.

I worked in middle management Sears for many years. I warned them about their complacence and arrogance. They didn't listen. They doubled down.

Deere is reacting in a similar fashion.

Mahindra, chip-chip, Kubota, chip-chip, Korean Tractors chip-chip-chip

It's just a matter of time.

I can hear the scoffs in the background.

News-Flash, people. At one time, Sears was the 4th largest company on Earth and employed the most people of any company on Earth.

The bigger a Company gets, the more 'inbred' it gets. They promote like-thinkers, get-along, go-along types.

Another arrogant Illinois Company doomed by its own blindness

 

[ovrszd]

Under 50HP, it is.

And worldwide, Mahindra is kicking their butts handily.

Mahindra, chip-chip, Kubota, chip-chip, Korean Tractors chip-chip-chip

I'll hafta Google this and study the data for a bit......

So Mahindra sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Kubota sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Korean tractors sell more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

India has 1.3 Trillion people to feed. Mahindra tractors originate in India. Their farming operation average size is much smaller than here. No surprise that Mahindra is selling a LOT of units "worldwide".

 

[mx1alex]

I'll hafta Google this and study the data for a bit......

So Mahindra sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Kubota sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Korean tractors sell more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

India has 1.3 Trillion people to feed. Mahindra tractors originate in India. Their farming operation average size is much smaller than here. No surprise that Mahindra is selling a LOT of units "worldwide".

India has 1.3 billion with a "b". Hopefully the planet as a whole is a long ways off from reaching 1 trillion people.

 

[fried1765]

Their product sells itself. Friend of mine opened a Stihl Dealership. Said it's the easiest product to sell he's ever saw.

STIHL.......EASIEST PRODUCT TO SELL HE'S EVER.... SAW?

 

[Username Taken]

I'll hafta Google this and study the data for a bit......

So Mahindra sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Kubota sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Korean tractors sell more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

India has 1.3 Trillion people to feed. Mahindra tractors originate in India. Their farming operation average size is much smaller than here. No surprise that Mahindra is selling a LOT of units "worldwide".

No, Kubota dominates the market in under-100 HP Tractors. I thought everybody knew that?

Mahindra is kicking Deere's butt worldwide.

Deere is still a strong company because of their profit margins. They make more money per tractor than anybody. By a wide margin.

They're getting like generic motors, a financial group rather than a tractor/vehicle company. And we all know what happened to gm. Cost the taxpayer $20 Billion. Oh yes, it did. That IPO was a joke.

People are moving out of the Suburbs and Cities and back to the little, small towns and buying small acreage. The market for under 50HP tractors has exploded and Deere got caught with their pants down. Again.

They're a big Company, bigger than Ford or gm. I just worry that they can't keep up. They're something of a dinosaur. And they're really angering their bread-and-butter people with this Right To Repair stuff (figures, gm filed an Amicus brief on behalf of Deere)

I don't really dislike them, I just don't think they care about the little guy (me) as much as they could.

The BIG Farmers? Sure. The Millionaire, ultra-rich Farmer? Yup. Agribusiness is their market. Are you a multi-millionaire Farmer with 20,000 acres to till?? If not, Deere don't wanna know you....

That's just the impression I get. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

 

[fried1765]

I'll hafta Google this and study the data for a bit......

So Mahindra sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Kubota sells more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

Korean tractors sell more 50HP and under units in the U.S. than JD?

India has 1.3 Trillion people to feed. Mahindra tractors originate in India. Their farming operation average size is much smaller than here. No surprise that Mahindra is selling a LOT of units "worldwide".

"India has 1.3 Trillion people to feed"

WOW!
India had a 1000 fold population increase since 2019?
They must reproduce much faster than rabbits!
In 2019, India had a population of 1.366 billion!

 

[ovrszd]

India has 1.3 billion with a "b". Hopefully the planet as a whole is a long ways off from reaching 1 trillion people.

Correct, sorry for the misstatement. Thanks for the correction.

 

[ovrszd]

STIHL.......EASIEST PRODUCT TO SELL HE'S EVER.... SAW?

Good one!!!!

 

[ovrszd]

No, Kubota dominates the market in under-100 HP Tractors. I thought everybody knew that?

Mahindra is kicking Deere's butt worldwide.

Deere is still a strong company because of their profit margins. They make more money per tractor than anybody. By a wide margin.

They're getting like generic motors, a financial group rather than a tractor/vehicle company. And we all know what happened to gm. Cost the taxpayer $20 Billion. Oh yes, it did. That IPO was a joke.

People are moving out of the Suburbs and Cities and back to the little, small towns and buying small acreage. The market for under 50HP tractors has exploded and Deere got caught with their pants down. Again.

They're a big Company, bigger than Ford or gm. I just worry that they can't keep up. They're something of a dinosaur. And they're really angering their bread-and-butter people with this Right To Repair stuff (figures, gm filed an Amicus brief on behalf of Deere)

I don't really dislike them, I just don't think they care about the little guy (me) as much as they could.

The BIG Farmers? Sure. The Millionaire, ultra-rich Farmer? Yup. Agribusiness is their market. Are you a multi-millionaire Farmer with 20,000 acres to till?? If not, Deere don't wanna know you....

That's just the impression I get. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

I think you are tilted in your prejudices. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Kubota may dominate the market under 100HP worldwide. Not sure they do in the U.S.

Deere will sell more dollars in equipment this month than Mahindra will this year.

Not sure what basis you have to declare Deere's profit margin??? I suspect the profit margin on a Grey Market tractor is much higher than on a Deere.

I cannot envision a situation that would require Deere to be receiving the same governmental financial support that GM did.

I think Deere is well represented within the small acreage owners.

Calling Deere a dinosaur is a reach. They certainly don't have their pants down. The "right to repair" situation will become common among all the large manufacturers as technology progresses. It's already common in the automobile industry.

Deere cares about profits. As does all companies.

The BIG farmer is inevitable. Farmers now are the same as they've always been in regards to wealth. Asset rich, cash poor. For anyone that thinks it's glamorous I say start signing your name and buying equipment. After all we live in a free nation where that option is available to everyone.

 

[Username Taken]

<snip>The "right to repair" situation will become common among all the large manufacturers as technology progresses. It's already common in the automobile industry.<snip>

Not even close

Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

in a 2014 memorandum of understanding between the Auto Care Association, Coalition for Auto Repair Equality (CARE) and vehicle manufacturers. For the first time ever, new car manufacturers must make the same service information and tools available to independent repair shops that they provide for their franchised dealers. Right to Repair now guarantees every car owner’s right to have their vehicle serviced at the repair facility of their choice.

 

[mred2]

In talking small equipment, the small dealers sale the lawn mowers and the scuts and cuts. The also have to do the warranty on the lawn mowers that are sold at the box stores. There is a lot of time and lower profits. A salesman may be paid commission on the profit of the sale. A bigger machine the bigger the profit and more commission. Salesman can be jerks but we have all been there. There are good and bad dealers on all sides. This is one of the big reasons for this site. I want to get a good price, good service and parts available at a fair price. The Deeres, Kubotas and Mahindras need to watch their market share. As the others are all making progress in the market. Sometimes good customer service goes a long way.

 

[ovrszd]

Not even close

Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is not true. There are many, many diagnostic things that an independent shop cannot do with your car/truck. These things must be dealt with at the certified dealership. My Son runs into this frequently and pushes work to the dealerships because of it.

I'll give you a stupid simple example. Lose the key fob to your late model vehicle and see where it ends up to get replaced. Never mind the cost.....

 

[TBone]

Their product sells itself. Friend of mine opened a Stihl Dealership. Said it's the easiest product to sell he's ever saw.

I disagree. John Deeres DO NOT sell themselves. It takes a little merchandising and a little attention to the customers. I don’t want or expect JD dealer personnel to take me down when I walk into their dealership but I do expect to be treated with courtesy and have my (very few) questions answered. Otherwise I will and did go somewhere else.

 

[bearthebruce]

The "right to repair" situation will become common among all the large manufacturers as technology progresses. It's already common in the automobile industry.

Unfortunately, the Right to Repair Act for autos did not go far enough. It did not cover the vehicle data in the control modules of the cars.

There is a fight brewing over who owns the data. The OE says, "We wrote the code and designed the system, the data is ours." The customer who owns the vehicle says, "I paid to own the car. The data is mine." At issue is the vast amount of data in the cars that now is required to service the car and also the data that the OE wants to sell to other parties so they can sell services to the car owner.

While the previous act forced the OE to give a reasonable cost access to aftermarket repairers for dealer level information, it did not force that the data in the control modules be open to the aftermarket repair professionals and enthusiasts. This battle is being fought now as the original "Right to Repair" coalition work to get attention in Congress and in state legislatures.

I'm not sure how this relates to the sales issues experienced by the OP, but I felt the Right to Repair information should be clarified. Seems to me the Ag industry needs to demand access through a "Right to Repair Ag equipment". The OEs for Ag do not seem to want to enable repair and maintenance of the electronic systems they are using in these machines. They will fight it and they will tell us all that they are doing so for our own good. We don't how to deal with these systems. There is some truth to it but like all systems, we can learn.

 

[sunandsand]

"I just don't think they care about the little guy (me) as much as they could.

The BIG Farmers? Sure. The Millionaire, ultra-rich Farmer? Yup. Agribusiness is their market. Are you a multi-millionaire Farmer with 20,000 acres to till?? If not, Deere don't wanna know you....

That's just the impression I get. I could be wrong but I don't think so."



You're not wrong. If you graph profitability against price in just about any business, you get a "U" shaped curve. The profits are possible at the low end and probably very good at the high end, in the middle, there isn't enough.

Examples - one new Boeing 787 costs more and makes more profit than all the Cessna 150s sold in forever (1959 through 1985, about 40,000 airplanes). Same for Rolls Royce vs. Kia, Harley-Davidson or BMW vs. a zillion cheap, disposable mopeds.

JD is specifically after the big buck industrial farming market because that's where the serious money is. The customers don't care about right to repair because they'll just write it off anyway, and their bottom line will take a .000001% hit - not even a rounding error.

Somehow, I can't see the CEO of International-Super-Pan-Agrico Inc. (Incorporated in the Caymans) going out into a muddy field in his $10,000 suit and fancy Italian shoes with some wrenches and a can of hydraulic fluid to fix a tractor. (And call my junior PA to order another Bentley, this one is almost out of gas.)

Now for the rest of us, we get to fix things ourselves. We can either pay for someone's captive service and not eat for a month, or we can fix the damn thing ourselves and get back to work. We read TBN because we need the information and enjoy the community support, Mr. CEO isn't paying for any of this out of his own pocket, so TBN is not even on his radar.

Of course, if you want to make REAL money, sell to Uncle Sam . . .

Best Regards,

Mike in Florida