Could use some counsel

[arrow]

So with this trenching bucket I'm building, I've run into a snag and I'm too ignorant about welding to devise the solution.
I'm stitching 1/8" material with a 7014 1/8" rod and will run the joints with a wire feeder once I get it. The 7014 does fine when the adjacent metal is 1/4" welded to the 1/8". But 1/8th to 1/8th...not so much.

The rod is probably to big for what I'm trying to do which is fill in a little less than 1/8" horizontal gap between the metals where the top of the bucket meets the back.
If I get to where the rod doesn't stick, it's too hot and burns through the gap. If I run 80 amps, the rod sticks and won't light.

So I'm either making a mistake using that rod to fill in the gap or it's too big or both of those reasons.

I tried 3/32 6013 at 70 amps and that's still too hot. 40 amps and it won't light.
Should I even be using a stick welder to fill in the gap or wait for me getting the mig?

 

[user.69169]

Kinda sorta depends on what you got to work wid.
Welded a lot of 1/16 expanded metal to Sc 40 pipe for cab protectors & such wid 1/8 6013 over time and got a bit good at it. That's similar to tackin up a bucket.

First thing I suggest is setting yerself up a test patch wid some scrap so you can work up technique. You want to light off on de 1/4, wash over onto the 1/8 once you got puddle and den whip back to thick and get off. 1/8 to 1/8 you want pretty tight fitup using 1/8 rod.
3/32 6013 shouldn't be too hot unless machine is lieing to you on amps. 6013 you want arc short as you can hold it and you want to light soon as you strike. On 1/8 material you really not want a gap more than 1/32. Dat should let you run full penetration easy.

I'm thinkin you getting in trouble wid too much gap and too long arc.

Worst case, you can on DC machine use 1/8 x 1 flat to fine tune de current. Clamp strap good to work, and move work clamp along strap to tune amps. DON'T TOUCH DE STRAP.

Backer another way. Keep welds short and knock backer loose and move.

DON't do a Kaiser fillin opening wid wire or chunks of iron.

Gap gonna give you problems when you mig if you cake decorate wid wire.

 

[arrow]

Kinda sorta depends on what you got to work wid.
Welded a lot of 1/16 expanded metal to Sc 40 pipe for cab protectors & such wid 1/8 6013 over time and got a bit good at it. That's similar to tackin up a bucket.

First thing I suggest is setting yerself up a test patch wid some scrap so you can work up technique. You want to light off on de 1/4, wash over onto the 1/8 once you got puddle and den whip back to thick and get off. 1/8 to 1/8 you want pretty tight fitup using 1/8 rod.
3/32 6013 shouldn't be too hot unless machine is lieing to you on amps. 6013 you want arc short as you can hold it and you want to light soon as you strike. On 1/8 material you really not want a gap more than 1/32. Dat should let you run full penetration easy.

I'm thinkin you getting in trouble wid too much gap and too long arc.

Worst case, you can on DC machine use 1/8 x 1 flat to fine tune de current. Clamp strap good to work, and move work clamp along strap to tune amps. DON'T TOUCH DE STRAP.

Backer another way. Keep welds short and knock backer loose and move.

DON't do a Kaiser fillin opening wid wire or chunks of iron.

Gap gonna give you problems when you mig if you cake decorate wid wire.

Yes. the fit up gap is problematic. It was recessed and I couldn't see it well so didn't realize it was so large until the stick lit it up. At that point I should have stopped and undid the tacks but oh no, "I can handle it" so I went on like an impatient dope.
The 6013 should have helped me.
I'll try to fine tune it as you sase.
The machine could be lying to me. The way its numbers fluctuate on its digital read out, it could be anywhere.
i'll experiment some more. If I can't do it and I continue ruining the metal, I'll have to grind it all out and start over.
Thanks for your help.

 

[arrow]

Should I be reversing polarity and welding with dcen for the 6013 or thicker 7014?

 

[user.69169]

Don't mean to be mean, but I repeat what I was told long time back when I learnin to burn holes in steel wid stick.
Most important thing in weldin is knowin when to STOP.

Was I in yer shoes I'd be STOPPED and settin up some pieces of scrap to figure out deal on.

I got no love of all dat digital and read out crap. Electric weldin basicly 100 years old and most dem years men & women stick welded just fine widout radouts. Burnin rods a matter of sight and sound. I can stand 10 feet from man runnin 1/8 6013 and tell from sound if he makin welds or makin holes & spatter.
Biggest part of problem me tryin to straighten you up here is I can't see and hear what you doin. Can't holler STOP either. Seems like dat word I use most showin somebody how to run 6013.

Polarity definitely make difference in what arc does layiin metal in, but is only PART of making weld.
6013 definitely do job you tryin to do, and once you get hang of runnin 6013 you can weld out whole bucket wid it.

Question is why you tryin to learn to run 6013 on what be finished job? Scrap your best friend at dis point.

Set up some scrap simulating what you tryin to do and learn on it. You ain't gotta grind bad welds outa scrap goin to china to come back paperclip.

 

[arrow]

So I clamped the strap and moved the ground along. I also ran the 1/8" 7014 rod with dcen. @100amps. Made all the difference in the world.
Filled in the fitment gap and no burn through.
Actually, 7014 seems to like dcen.

My aunt was a WW2 welder. She's 97 now. While visiting with us about 5 yrs ago, she crept up behind me as I was welding and said "from the sound of it, you're running a bit cold".
She was a wealth of info and I learned something about her that I never knew in about 45 yrs of knowing her.

So much for welding smoke killing you at an early age.

 

[user.69169]

Funny how dem old dirty tricks still work.
De strap trick beats he!! out of walk back to machine to adjust current 6 ways to sundown too.

Aunt thing, SWEET. I got some pictures of WW-2 welder babes someplace, best one is girl on belly on cart with stinger and another girl with crank pulling her along job. 1940s semi automatic welding. Wimmen way better on TIG. Had 1 walk up while I was frustrated to he!! & back and ask if I wanted her to show me how. She did. Got to be good friends over time.

 

[arrow]

Thanks (removed) for your help. May you always "passivated"

 

[WranglerX]

If you are going to use wire feed welder to finish up, just skip the stick part and go to MIG now....

Dale

 

[Gordon Gould]

Arrow, If you want to keep going with the stick you could try taking a piece of 1/8" welding wire that you would use for torch welding and lay it or tack it in the gap then weld it up with a zig-zag motion across the joint. Once it's closed up grind out the other side just enough to clean it up and weld that side.

 

[1 of U]

you are welding up a trenching bucket out of 1/8" material !!
what are you using this bucket on ,, anyway ??

 

[user.69169]

Arrow, If you want to keep going with the stick you could try taking a piece of 1/8" welding wire that you would use for torch welding and lay it or tack it in the gap then weld it up with a zig-zag motion across the joint. Once it's closed up grind out the other side just enough to clean it up and weld that side.

Dat's called doin a Kaiser, or on one wannabe site "STIG". Got de name because Kaiser had many poor fitups on keel of Liberty class hulls. Management took Anything Goes path because Libertys were considered 1 trip hulls and largely welded out by cheap inexperienced stinger drivers. Resultin welds sunk a good number of Libertys. "Stig" variant is feeding additional rod into arc pool of stick weld from second rod. Might get you out of trouble but more likely to get you in more trouble.

Best course of action dis point is to add tacks between existing tacks and den skip weld if MIG ain't available. Dat will also cut warpage potential by moving around on de job. Start one end and keep going to other end you likely hear BOING when something distorts.

 

[arrow]

If you are going to use wire feed welder to finish up, just skip the stick part and go to MIG now....

Dale

Don't have it yet. My understanding is someone is providing a Christmas gift.

 

[arrow]

Arrow, If you want to keep going with the stick you could try taking a piece of 1/8" welding wire that you would use for torch welding and lay it or tack it in the gap then weld it up with a zig-zag motion across the joint. Once it's closed up grind out the other side just enough to clean it up and weld that side.

I solved the gap problem by moving ground along clamped strap and switching polarity to dcen. Filled in gap w no burn through. 7014 @ 100 amps den.
Thanks Gordon. Will consider your technique if I screw up fitment as i did this time.

 

[arrow]

you are welding up a trenching bucket out of 1/8" material !!
what are you using this bucket on ,, anyway ??

No. Sides are 1/4". Only bucket bottom and back are 1/8" Bucket welded to quick attach backing plate along with additional wear straps on bottom couples with a 6"x 1/2" thick cutting edge, the 1/8" steel should not be an issue. Bucket is 14" wide.

 

[Sebculb]

I tried 3/32 6013 at 70 amps and that's still too hot.

I don't want to be rude but that's not the stick welders fault. 3/32 at 70 amps will weld metal 1.2mm thick all day if you're careful. That's less than 1/16" thick.

Just work on quick stitches, and keep your spark small, etc. If you have a big gap build up one side of the metal until the gap closes a little. The bigger the gap the longer the spark and its hotter and burns holes.

Can you tack it in a few places and "adjust" the gap with a hammer?

 

[Sebculb]

Gee... I guess (removed) said all the same stuff several posts earlier...

 

[arrow]

I don't want to be rude but that's not the stick welders fault. 3/32 at 70 amps will weld metal 1.2mm thick all day if you're careful. That's less than 1/16" thick.

Just work on quick stitches, and keep your spark small, etc. If you have a big gap build up one side of the metal until the gap closes a little. The bigger the gap the longer the spark and its hotter and burns holes.

Can you tack it in a few places and "adjust" the gap with a hammer?

It could be. Read out was fluctuating all over the place. It could have also been lying to me and not telling me what the actual amperage was. Trust me, the rod was burning very hot at the alleged 70 amps. Went back to 40 amps but it wouldn't light.
If this were a $1700 Esab, then yes, I take all responsibility.

Problem has been solved anyway. Since it appears you have not read the entire thread and perhaps for your own future reference, I used 1/8" 7014 on dcen at an alleged 100 amps on a traveling ground clamped strap to mitigate the gap problem.
Thanks for your input.

 

[user.69169]

Maybe machine just readin out in Manderin and you misunderstood.

OK, just in case you ain't yet, hunt up some flat car spring for cuttin edges and cheeks along wid heal protection. Dat steel is about same as High Speed cutting tool material and lasts. Renosed a lot of rototiller tines wd it and yet got to have one come back wore down much.
Welds on real good wid E-70-s6 wire or probably 7014 too.

 

[Furu]

My aunt was a WW2 welder. She's 97 now. While visiting with us about 5 yrs ago, she crept up behind me as I was welding and said "from the sound of it, you're running a bit cold".
She was a wealth of info and I learned something about her that I never knew in about 45 yrs of knowing her.

Now that is a cool story. Bet she is a hoot to talk with.