Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[reb]

Saw the Bollinger website yesterday. Almost sold me, but for two problems--estimated 200 mile range and $125k price tag. One would have to carry a generator to recharge it in my area.

 

[airbiscuit]

I always wondered about a different type of hybrid. A pure electric car with a clean/high efficiency/constant speed diesel powered generator to extend range.

 

[/pine]

I always wondered about a different type of hybrid. A pure electric car with a clean/high efficiency/constant speed diesel powered generator to extend range.

Replace the diesel generator with a smaller hydrogen or similar fuel cell to keep the charge up and recharge when not in use...no need for other (outside) recharging/fueling systems etc...

 

[Agvg]

Great article, Thanks

China is the EV capital of the world when it comes to number of EV makers period. US and Europe will be niche players but China will rule the battery and EV vehicles the rest of our life times I expect. Tesla had good reasons to build the first factory outside of the USA and chose China based on those reasons. There are ships to cover Asia and trains to Europe.

Why would Europe buy Chinese cars? We can build them ourselves.

 

[Grumpycat]

The issue with batteries is not how long they will last or how many charges they are good for...it is and always will be how long a charge lasts...

Thats brilliant! Why do we not run everything off AA alkaline cells! Very high energy density. Just replace the batteries rather than the inconvenience of charging!

The answer is that even with Tesla's existing long life 10+ year batteries the cost of wear and tear on the battery is a significant percentage of the cost of the power used to charge.

 

[Grumpycat]

I always wondered about a different type of hybrid. A pure electric car with a clean/high efficiency/constant speed diesel powered generator to extend range.

Still doesn't come close to the efficiency and low cost of fixed plant power generation.

 

[Grumpycat]

Replace the diesel generator with a smaller hydrogen or similar fuel cell to keep the charge up and recharge when not in use...no need for other (outside) recharging/fueling systems etc...

Hydrogen is very inefficient to create. Simply compressing it to a volume small enough to carry a useful quantity uses a lot of power. And if you think ethanol is corrosive and troublesome, hydrogen makes ethanol look like an amateur.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Why would Europe buy Chinese cars? We can build them ourselves.

Volvo is one China brand popular in Europe already. China owns the lion share of EV battery industry and EV passenger bus and EV trucks shipped worldwide. Tesla in China is going to cobalt free iron based EV battery. When it comes to EV's and Space Race China has the most USA trained engineers. China is leading the EV self driving effort and their advances in 5G technology is lowering the cost of self driving technology. Europe and perhaps the USA will forget about the 2020 Pandemic and continue to sell key food and manufacturing companies to China since they now have the money and technology from the rest of the world. Claiming the Dark side of the moon showed their technology advances over the rest of the world.

 

[/pine]

Hydrogen is very inefficient to create. Simply compressing it to a volume small enough to carry a useful quantity uses a lot of power. And if you think ethanol is corrosive and troublesome, hydrogen makes ethanol look like an amateur.

Beating the dead horse that is arguing about the issues of hydrogen is inane...the key is improving the technology involved in producing it and dealing with the volatility...

 

[airbiscuit]

I always wondered about a different type of hybrid. A pure electric car with a clean/high efficiency/constant speed diesel powered generator to extend range.

Still doesn't come close to the efficiency and low cost of fixed plant power generation.

Yep, plug it in at night. Then start on a 500 mile trip, with the small diesel generator adding charge along the way. It would never be used on trips within the range of the batteries. It's function is to extend the range on long trips.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Got into an EV discussion out at Lowe's yesterday. The guy had a new electric bicycle with huge balloon tires that cost $1500. He told me all about it and I was impressed. As I was about to go into Lowe's I pointed to our Leaf and he started to ask me a lot of questions about it. He asked if it recharged itself when the motor was turning. I said no but I just plug it in when it needs recharging. He was retired from construction and was certain some one has invented a self charging EV by now.

I have to say electric bikes have really dropped in price.

Electric Fat Bike | RadRover 5 | Rad Power Bikes

 

[Agvg]

Volvo is one China brand popular in Europe already. China owns the lion share of EV battery industry and EV passenger bus and EV trucks shipped worldwide. Tesla in China is going to cobalt free iron based EV battery. When it comes to EV's and Space Race China has the most USA trained engineers. China is leading the EV self driving effort and their advances in 5G technology is lowering the cost of self driving technology. Europe and perhaps the USA will forget about the 2020 Pandemic and continue to sell key food and manufacturing companies to China since they now have the money and technology from the rest of the world. Claiming the Dark side of the moon showed their technology advances over the rest of the world.

Well, you don't see much Chinese influence on Volvo, and I'm quite sure that Volvo will be made in Sweden in the future. Europe are much more protective when it comes to manufacturing, the Chinese brands that want to sell will eventually have to set up production lines here if they hope to succeed. And EU is very worried about becoming depending on China, it's a dictatorship that has bought knowledge cheap and we the idiots have given them all they wanted on a silver plate.

 

[sd455dan]

Well, you don't see much Chinese influence on Volvo, and I'm quite sure that Volvo will be made in Sweden in the future. Europe are much more protective when it comes to manufacturing, the Chinese brands that want to sell will eventually have to set up production lines here if they hope to succeed. And EU is very worried about becoming depending on China, it's a dictatorship that has bought knowledge cheap and we the idiots have given them all they wanted on a silver plate.

Yeah about that...

Volvo’s Polestar begins production of the all-electric Polestar 2 in China – TechCrunch

 

[Agvg]

Yeah about that...

Volvo’s Polestar begins production of the all-electric Polestar 2 in China – TechCrunch

It will be produced in Europe if it going to sell at a volume, at the moment it's not a mass sold car. And European Volvo customers are probably not very interested in a PRC made Volvo so time will tell.

 

[Agvg]

But thanks to US president Donald Trump we are getting PRC made Volvo's in Europe at the moment....

European customers to get China-made Volvo XC6 - paultan.org

 

[Gale Hawkins]

But thanks to US president Donald Trump we are getting PRC made Volvo's in Europe at the moment....

European customers to get China-made Volvo XC6 - paultan.org

WOW your post mentioning Donald Trump opened my eyes to the fact European markets are open to China by rail and the USA does not want China to have the run of European trade. It sounds like some in Europe are not excited about China's move on the European markets.

Explained: China'''s Belt and Road Initiative, US trying to counter - Business Insider

First mixed transportation train ferrying Chinese-made Volvo cars arrives in Belgium - Xinhua | English.news.cn

I really can not see Europe EV makers being able to compete with China in the EV low end niche. The next 5 months could bring changes where the USA embraces full trade with China like Europe has done with China.

The COVID-19 concerns in the USA seems to have been replaced with more pressing matters so shut downs seem to be a thing of the pass and we will just accept the virus repercussions as they come. That may help the demands for EV's in the USA but is too early to know if that will happen. Tesla is back building cars but some would like to stop them again.

 

[Agvg]

Europe will newer alow China to undermine local production, so the Chinese will have to pack down their factory and fill the train with it, at the moment EV are not a big deal except for a few countries, Norway where I live EV are big but that's an exception to have EV having over 50% of the market.

 

[Agvg]

And Europe is a very difficult market to work in, as an example Honda that's are a large player has failed almost totally in Europe, most Japanese brands struggle, the Korean brands do better than the Japanese. US brands except Tesla have very little sale, here in Scandinavia we have som US pickup sales, new RAM and F150 is not uncommon, same with Chevy.

 

[two_bit_score]

And Europe is a very difficult market to work in, as an example Honda that's are a large player has failed almost totally in Europe, most Japanese brands struggle, the Korean brands do better than the Japanese. US brands except Tesla have very little sale, here in Scandinavia we have som US pickup sales, new RAM and F150 is not uncommon, same with Chevy.

What is most common in Norway, Scandinavia and Europe?

 

[Agvg]

What is most common in Norway, Scandinavia and Europe?

On trucks or cars?