Front wheel spacers?

[troverman]

I have purchased aluminum wheel spacers from Bro-Tek on several tractors in the past, on the rear wheels, to widen the stance.

I noticed they also have front wheel spacers. Would adding front spacers help reduce rollover risk on side slopes, given that the front axle is on a pivot? Would it cause undue stress on the front drivetrain, such as when using a loader, when operating 4x4, or just turning?

I would be considering 2" spacers on the rear, and also possibly on the front.

 

[RickB]

No. Yes. Front wheel spacers are not something I would ever use or recommend.

 

[dragoneggs]

Gonna probably depend on size of the tractor. I have the 2in BroTek on the back and the 1.25in on the front of my BX. Yes, the spacers on the front make a difference especially turning on a side slope. I went with 1.25in on the fronts for two reasons. First I was a bit concerned about the stress on the axle as I had a bunch of loader work in front of me, second, they wouldn't interfere with a belly mower as a 2in spacer would. Ended up not getting a MMM and got a Z turn because of losing the ground clearance and no quick way to remove the MMM.

 

[RaydaKub]

Would adding front spacers help reduce rollover risk on side slopes, given that the front axle is on a pivot?

In a static situation, technically the answer is yes. At that last little fraction of a degree of rolling over it will help prevent it. However in a dynamic situation (you are driving it, right?) the answer is almost assuredly no. If you have lost it that badly, the momentum you have to roll probably will not be affected by that last little blockage. I mean, the front axle alone would offer you a 1% (?) chance of helping, but that extra inch wider might get you to 1.00001%. Not worth it if you ask me, but oh yeah, you did! The amount of safety margin this adds is not zero, but it's close.

Would it cause undue stress on the front drivetrain, such as when using a loader, when operating 4x4, or just turning?

All of the above. You have added leverage in every direction possible and if you're thinking of it for loader work, just that much worse. I wouldn't do it.

 

[dragoneggs]

In a static situation, technically the answer is yes. At that last little fraction of a degree of rolling over it will help prevent it. However in a dynamic situation (you are driving it, right?) the answer is almost assuredly no. If you have lost it that badly, the momentum you have to roll probably will not be affected by that last little blockage. I mean, the front axle alone would offer you a 1% (?) chance of helping, but that extra inch wider might get you to 1.00001%. Not worth it if you ask me, but oh yeah, you did! The amount of safety margin this adds is not zero, but it's close.

I understand where you are coming from static vs. dynamic loading but keeping with the go low and slow mantra I believe they are worth it to me. Not as effective as spacers on the rear but but if I was a betting man I would say you get more stability than the nearly zero that you are estimating.

 

[RaydaKub]

I understand where you are coming from static vs. dynamic loading but keeping with the go low and slow mantra I believe they are worth it to me. Not as effective as spacers on the rear but but if I was a betting man I would say you get more stability than the nearly zero that you are estimating.

Hey Dragon,
I know you've done a ton of landscaping on your property on the mountain. I remember reading your thread while you were building your retaining wall. I totally respect your opinion and skills. But I gotta ask, is this a feel-good thing? I mean, they haven't actually helped you unless you had at least one rear wheel off the ground and ready to go greasy side up. And at that moment, would you be able to tell that it was the spacer that saved your paint job? I can't help but be skeptical.

 

[dragoneggs]

Hey Dragon,
I know you've done a ton of landscaping on your property on the mountain. I remember reading your thread while you were building your retaining wall. I totally respect your opinion and skills. But I gotta ask, is this a feel-good thing? I mean, they haven't actually helped you unless you had at least one rear wheel off the ground and ready to go greasy side up. And at that moment, would you be able to tell that it was the spacer that saved your paint job? I can't help but be skeptical.

Okay call it a feel good thing... I can accept that.

Yeah I have had one wheel off the ground multiple times unfortunately because I 'push' it. Again, strongly emphasizing low and slow and being very deliberate. I've had both rear wheels off the ground although that was simply trying to lift too much with my FEL facing straight downhill. Having two wheels on the same side off the ground has been one of the worst feelings I can remember. Dropping the bucket and leaning uphill FAST like I'm a Grand Prix motorcyclist, except they are having fun. Then taking a deep breath and then figuring how I am going to get this thing righted.

You are right though... no way to measure the effect of wider spacing but I see it as worthwhile insurance. Plus it makes your tractor stance badder! Kidding (sort of).

We won't settle this but but I'm glad I have the spacers on my tractor and who knows, maybe I would have already gone t!ts up without them. :confused3:

I can only speak for SCUTs but I will always recommend wheel spacers for anyone operating on a hill with any significant slope.

 

[BrokenTrack]

All the bump-steer I was getting was not worth it for me, so I changed it back to the way my tractor was.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Hey Dragon,
I know you've done a ton of landscaping on your property on the mountain. I remember reading your thread while you were building your retaining wall. I totally respect your opinion and skills. But I gotta ask, is this a feel-good thing? I mean, they haven't actually helped you unless you had at least one rear wheel off the ground and ready to go greasy side up. And at that moment, would you be able to tell that it was the spacer that saved your paint job? I can't help but be skeptical.

The only time a front spacer wpould "work" would be when you lifted a rear tire so high into the air that you found the mechanical end of the front axles pivot, when you hard stop the front axle pivot..... should your tractor now stop rotating over.... you can now say that adding the front spacers may have helped. The truth is that once you are on a ground slope that gets your rear rotating sideways and then you add the freedom of motion built into that front pivot, the frame/engine/rear axle will now have pivoted so far that you are not stopping the roll over.

The only reason a front spacer can be useful would be to spread tire width out to negotiate crop rows or ruts. As for roll over prevention, you would need 5 foot long spacers to make them at all useful! They are an utter waste of money sold to people who are not knowledgeable in basic engineering/physics principals. And that would be about 75% of the population.

I'm sure that those that buy them feel better for it, and like most... will defend it t the grave.

 

[troverman]

Thanks for the replies. My only question regarding front spacers is the following:

What is more stable...a tricycle tractor or a conventional front end tractor, both with identical rear tires and track widths, on the same side slope?

It seems to me there has to be some point where more front track width, even on a pivot, is worth something.

I flail mow on quite steep side slopes; have done it for years now on the same slopes without a rollover. I am definitely operating under the slow, deliberate, and low mentality.

Thoughts?

 

[finn1]

Do a search for broken wheel studs and front axles before you add spacers. I recall reading about both here, and have seen both in person. The cure may be worse than the disease.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Thanks for the replies. My only question regarding front spacers is the following:

What is more stable...a tricycle tractor or a conventional front end tractor, both with identical rear tires and track widths, on the same side slope?

It seems to me there has to be some point where more front track width, even on a pivot, is worth something.

I flail mow on quite steep side slopes; have done it for years now on the same slopes without a rollover. I am definitely operating under the slow, deliberate, and low mentality.

Thoughts?

I don't feel that there is a real difference in the tractors above. Your trying to credit the wide set wheels for some added stability when the pivot does not allow for any credit to be given until you reach that point of axle motion cessation. Up until that moment.... the front can not be accredited with stability. Stand in your hallway of your home and stand on 1 foot. Now lean towards the wall and as you go, using just that one leg/foot try to stop half way towards your shoulders hitting the wall. The wall is the hard stop of the pivot in this case, your 1 leg/foot is the pivot point. Can you provide resistance to that motion with 1 pivot point? No, you can not.

Now stand with 2 feet spread apart shoulder width. This is your rear axle. Your single pivot point front axle does not have diddly to with anything aside from supporting weight and balancing load across the pair of wheels.

 

[CADplans]

I have fluid filled the fronts on several tractors,, and liked the results,,

consider adding weight (fluid, or iron, or both) before adding spacers.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for the replies. My only question regarding front spacers is the following:

What is more stable...a tricycle tractor or a conventional front end tractor, both with identical rear tires and track widths, on the same side slope?

Tricycle and conventional wide front end are going to have the same stability until you get to the end of the travel for the center pivot motion of the wide front end. Until that happens, rollover is going to be controlled by the rear wheel width. So whether or not widening the fronts will help with stability is going to depend on how many degrees the front axle pivot allows the tractor to lean before that center front axle pivot comes up against the stop. That spec. might be very different on different models.
rScotty

 

[TerryR]

Thanks for the replies. My only question regarding front spacers is the following:

What is more stable...a tricycle tractor or a conventional front end tractor, both with identical rear tires and track widths, on the same side slope?

It seems to me there has to be some point where more front track width, even on a pivot, is worth something.

The wide front end is somewhat more stable, but almost entirely because the pivot point is higher. It's at the top of the axle rather than on the ground.

With a wide front end, the width of the front end makes no difference at all until the tractor tips to the point where the front end pivot hits the stops. Maybe that could help if you were on uneven terrain, like crossing a ditch at an angle, such that the front axle has pivoted to the stop.

But if you are on a flat sloped surface the stop isn't hit until one rear wheel is far enough off the ground to have that much angle with the front end. If that is somehow happening in slow motion, the wide front end helps. I think mainly it doesn't happen in slow motion, so you have so much momentum as it rolls that the front end doesn't help much.

In such a case where the wide front end does help some, the couple of inches added by an extender will make only the tiniest of differences.

 

[CADplans]

A wide front end is MUCH more stable,,
exaggerate it,, consider the tires to be 10 feet tall,, then you can picture the situation better,,

on a narrow front end, as soon as the tractor tries to lean at all, the pivot point shifts towards the wrong direction,,

Why do you think they outlawed trike ATV's !!?? not because they were as stable as a 4-wheeler,,
I went riding one day with my new Honda 4-wheeler in 1984,, a friend had the identical "Big Red" Honda in a trike,,

He was CONSTANTLY almost turning over art the same speeds as I was operating at,,
He was 20 years older than me,, he was trying to force the trike to stay level,, and he could not make the third tire stay down,,

 

[troverman]

Some good points made all around - however, I still find it hard to believe adding width to the front doesn't help. *Some* force must be applied over the longer track of the front axle vs the tricycle tractor, so long as the front wheels are not dipping into a hole or something like that.

 

[troverman]

Well, in any case, I ordered 2" Bro-Tek spacers for my L4060...for the rear only. The spacers are over $300 a set and I really didn't want to experiment with stressing the front axle doing loader work.

I've always bought rear-only spacers and always been happy with the results. Thanks for your input on the subject.

 

[Henro]

Some good points made all around - however, I still find it hard to believe adding width to the front doesn't help. *Some* force must be applied over the longer track of the front axle vs the tricycle tractor, so long as the front wheels are not dipping into a hole or something like that.

Troveman,

You have to be right. Common sense as well as theory dictates it. Now how much front wheel spacers improves things is a separate question.

I would ask those who claim that front wheel spacer do not improve things with respect to worst case rollover situations explain why. Do they make things worse. doubt it. Do they keep things the same? Doubt it.

Strongest argument against them is probably that they make little practical difference.

I will not put them on my tractors personally, due to worrying about stress on the front axle. But that is just me.

 

[RaydaKub]

Okay call it a feel good thing... I can accept that.

:thumbsup:

Yeah I have had one wheel off the ground multiple times unfortunately because I 'push' it. Again, strongly emphasizing low and slow and being very deliberate. I've had both rear wheels off the ground although that was simply trying to lift too much with my FEL facing straight downhill.

I've done one several times also. Didn't like it at all. Have done both wheels only once I recall. Had a chain off the bucket trying to pull a small tree straight up and tried to back up to jerk it sideways a little. It didn't give, but it gave me a new experience. Glad I wasn't in 4x4 at the moment.

You are right though... no way to measure the effect of wider spacing but I see it as worthwhile insurance. Plus it makes your tractor stance badder! Kidding (sort of).

Badass-ness is IMPORTANT! Cheers!