Water Well 101......A few questions from a water well newbie

[Rmally]

Hey folks,

We are about 3 weeks from moving in to the new house. Next week they are moving the pressure bladder tank to the crawl space and will be hooking up the water. Here's my questions:

1. When the pump cycles if your in the shower do you loose a lot of water pressure?

2. Can you use multiple faucets with good pressure?

3. How do I know the optimal setting for setting the pressure in the bladder tank? I've watched so many videos but still confused.

As of right now the tank is still outside beside the casing. The air pressure in the tank is around 30ish lbs and it appears when the tank hits 30ish it fills back up and cuts back off around 55 or 60. I'm getting 12-14 gallons a minute with a 1hp pump. I noticed this week when rinsing off some equipment the pressure from the hose dropped off dramatically every time it cycled. I was using a lot of pressure and water so nothing like a shower head but that got me thinking about the above questions.

My tank is 25 gallons, should I get a bigger one for the crawl space.

Any input would be great.

Thanks

 

[Mendonsy]

I would suggest that you go to a larger tank. I have a 40 gallon tank with the pressure set to turn on at 40 psi and off at 80 psi. You can adjust the pressure switch to work in a tighter range, but that will cause the pump to cycle more often which shortens the life of the pump and controller.

 

[fried1765]

I would suggest that you go to a larger tank. I have a 40 gallon tank with the pressure set to turn on at 40 psi and off at 80 psi. You can adjust the pressure switch to work in a tighter range, but that will cause the pump to cycle more often which shortens the life of the pump and controller.

Yup.....use the largest tank that you can practically fit in your space.
Excessive pump cycling kills pumps over time.

 

[RNeumann]

Probably too late but they make 3 phase pumps that are variable speed. They maintain pressure very well and only need a small 1 gallon pressure tank.

In your case the 30 psi spread is too much. You can get that down to 5-15 psi with the pressure switch. Too tight and the pump cycles on and off a lot- this shortens then pump’s life. Too far apart and you notice the pressure difference when showering etc.

I assume the pump contractor just gave you a temporary setup to get you water. When he hooks it up in the house he will set it up to where you hardly notice the pressure changes. I’m guessing this is a non issue when it’s all done.......after all, you hired a good contractor!!!

 

[fried1765]

Probably too late but they make 3 phase pumps that are variable speed. They maintain pressure very well and only need a small 1 gallon pressure tank.

In your case the 30 psi spread is too much. You can get that down to 5-15 psi with the pressure switch. Too tight and the pump cycles on and off a lot- this shortens then pump痴 life. Too far apart and you notice the pressure difference when showering etc.

I assume the pump contractor just gave you a temporary setup to get you water. When he hooks it up in the house he will set it up to where you hardly notice the pressure changes. I知 guessing this is a non issue when it痴 all done.......after all, you hired a good contractor!!!

"3 phase pumps"?
How many private residences have 3 phase power?

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Go with a bigger tank for sure. We had an 80 gal one that was upgraded from a 40 gal.... you could definitely tell the difference. Also, the pressure range should be around 20 psi difference for the low cut in and the high cut off. That difference can occur at any pressure range, just not more than around that 20 psi figure. Ex: 35-55 psi, 40-60 psi, 60-80 psi,..... it can be a little different like 18 psi or 22 psi, but not higher ranges like 30 or 35 psi spreads.

Also make sure they put in multiple check valves. At least one before the tank, another after the tank. There should also be check valves about every 100 ft in the well line both in the well and the line feeding to the house. Not sure what those distances are...

In the long run, you will get it all dialed in.... congratulations on the new house completion!

 

[Oaktree]

I would suggest that you go to a larger tank. I have a 40 gallon tank with the pressure set to turn on at 40 psi and off at 80 psi. .

Was yours a bladder tank? I didn't know they made them that big. At my last house I think I had a 10 gallon, and it was more than sufficient.

As far as pressure goes, that depends on what your pump will put out. I had a shallow well, and the pump I had wouldn't do more than 45 psi or so. Again, totally adequate for anything I needed/wanted to do. Why do you need that much pressure?

 

[Mendonsy]

Was yours a bladder tank? I didn't know they made them that big. At my last house I think I had a 10 gallon, and it was more than sufficient.

As far as pressure goes, that depends on what your pump will put out. I had a shallow well, and the pump I had wouldn't do more than 45 psi or so. Again, totally adequate for anything I needed/wanted to do. Why do you need that much pressure?

Yes, the 80 gallon tank has an air bladder. It is set at 2 psi below the pump turn on pressure. As far as the pressures, those settings were put in by the original installer 50 years ago. In those 50 years I have had to replace the pump once because it died of old age and the tank once because of a leak so I can't complain much. I don't have access to the county water supply, but they typically run at 80 to 100 psi.

 

[herm0016]

"3 phase pumps"?
How many private residences have 3 phase power?

My parents have one of these from Grundfos, it has a variable frequency drive that ramps the pump up and down according to demand. The motor in the pump is 3 phase so that it can be controlled by the drive, the drive is powered by 220v single phase.

I have the same setup on my drill press.

 

[hawkeye08]

To reduce pump cycling, consider CycleStop.

For your pressure tank with bladder, set the bladder psi to 2lbs below the cut on pressure (38lbs if your pressure switch is 40-60).

 

[CobyRupert]

To reduce pump cycling, consider CycleStop.

For your pressure tank with bladder, set the bladder psi to 2lbs below the cut on pressure (38lbs if your pressure switch is 40-60).

Maybe this goes without saying, but novices like me had to figure out you set this air pressure in the bladder when there's zero water pressure. (i.e. pump off and tank has drained to zero water pressure.)

 

[ericm979]

I can't address the pressure tank issues since we have a gravity fed system. But I can say that you should set aside money each month/quarter/year for the well repair fund. Pipes in the well rust out, pumps fail, etc. We have a well repair bill roughly every 5-7 years.
Also have water in containers for emergency use for when the well goes out and the pump guys can't get there for a few days. Also for when the power goes out unless you have a way for the generator to run the well pump.

 

[turnkey4099]

Summary of above posts:

Pressure switch range is set for 20 psi pump cut in/out, pressure in tank is set 2psi below the cut in. This is set by turning pump off and draining the tank empty.

Pressures recommended for residential us: 30/50 or 40/60. The range can be adjusted up'down on most pressure switches. Pressures above 60 not recommended as it causes undue wear on fixtures.

30/50 in my experience is that the impulse sprinklers are a bit problematical at around the bottom of the pressure range. My system runs at the 30-50 range but I don't do a lot of irrigation.

New installlations usually are equipped with cycle stop switches. good/bad? I dunno, my understanding is that the pump turns on every time water is drawn.

 

[RNeumann]

"3 phase pumps"?
How many private residences have 3 phase power?

Not many, but their are a lot of 3 phase pumps in residential settings. I know it’s shocking but they can actually make 3 phase from split phase.....

Is a VFD Constant Pressure System worth the $$$? - YouTube

This is what I have. But like I said, it’s probably too late. The pump is probably already set (the one installed isn’t a temp) or it’s ordered.

Goulds Water Technology Presents Aquavar Solo 2 - YouTube

 

[Rmally]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the replies.....I just went ahead and printed all these to go over with the builder. I also talked with the gentleman that installed the initial outdoor setup, he said my builder had already called him and they were going to meet next week regarding moving the system.

They poured a small concrete pad today for the tank and trenched over to the house to run the power to the pump. Too late for me on the 3 phase but hopefully once its set up like y'all suggested we won't have any problems.

I sincerely appreciate all the help, I'm sure more questions will follow soon. On a side note I do remember back when it was installed the air pressure was something like 60psi and i lowered it to either 28 or 30. I assume 60 was way to high.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

"3 phase pumps"?
How many private residences have 3 phase power?

None. Probably meant a 220 volt pump. No residence is 3 phase

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Not many, but their are a lot of 3 phase pumps in residential settings. I know it’s shocking but they can actually make 3 phase from split phase.....

Is a VFD Constant Pressure System worth the $$$? - YouTube

This is what I have. But like I said, it’s probably too late. The pump is probably already set (the one installed isn’t a temp) or it’s ordered.

Goulds Water Technology Presents Aquavar Solo 2 - YouTube

This is true... had to do it in Pittsburgh last year, something to do with back feeding a neutral I think???

 

[hawkeye08]

Summary of above posts:

Pressure switch range is set for 20 psi pump cut in/out, pressure in tank is set 2psi below the cut in. This is set by turning pump off and draining the tank empty.

Pressures recommended for residential us: 30/50 or 40/60. The range can be adjusted up'down on most pressure switches. Pressures above 60 not recommended as it causes undue wear on fixtures.

30/50 in my experience is that the impulse sprinklers are a bit problematical at around the bottom of the pressure range. My system runs at the 30-50 range but I don't do a lot of irrigation.

New installlations usually are equipped with cycle stop switches. good/bad? I dunno, my understanding is that the pump turns on every time water is drawn.

It allows the pressure tank to work normally until the pressure drops enough to turn pump on, then pump runs until water flow stops and the pressure tank is filled.

Basic Operation of a Cycle Stop Valve – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

 

[RNeumann]

This is true... had to do it in Pittsburgh last year, something to do with back feeding a neutral I think???

Static Phase Converters -vs- Rotary Phase Converters -vs- Variable Frequency Drives - YouTube

OP- if you don’t want this thread going this way I’ll stop.

 

[oosik]

I have a VERY LARGE spring that produces over 300 gpm. I have a 3/4 hp submersible pump - 80 gallon pressure tank. The pressure tank and controls are in the basement. I get plenty of water. If I turn on every single faucet - I do notice a slight drop in flow & pressure. My pressure switch is set at 40-60.