Kioti Warranty Issues and Payments

[JimR]

As most people know I already posted about my Tier IV problems and how I had to pay the dealer upfront for my repair work which I considered should be covered by Kioti under their emissions warranty. As this is clearly stated in Kioti's warranty policy for emissions all labor, parts and diagnostics are covered for 5 years. The repair dealer is going to be sending in the three bills that I paid for upfront which totals over $2K for 3 repairs all related to a failed regeneration process. So far my tractor is still running with 9 hours on it since I got it back for the 3rd time. The DPF was plugged solid and a fuel injector was spewing 1.5 times the required amount of fuel. That injector was replaced and it passed a shut down test but not a run up test. Kioti has said that it doesn't mean that there is a problem with the tractor if it fails the run up test. Now you all know the facts. What I want to know is if anyone here has had to pay for upfront repair costs while your tractor was under warranty and had to wait for Kioti to reimburse you? Be honest now about this. NO BS and no avoiding the issue or making comments that are worthless and just taking up space. I don't want to know if Kioti cancelled your warranty for some reason or not. I just want hard facts and what repairs that you needed and how much you had to pay the dealer upfront to get your tractor back. Having been a mechanic for 10 years many years ago I never heard of any such thing.

 

[RickB]

I have dealership service Dept experience going back over 20 years at three dealerships with the following manufacturers at one time or another; New Holland, Kubota, Kioti, Mahindra, Gehl and several dozen short line manufacturers. I have absolutely never heard of such a thing. Matter of fact, your dealer should have sought preapproval for that warranty repair from Kioti. Had that happened there would be little or no question about their reimbursement.

 

[cholland]

I had a hydraulic seal fail at 9 hrs. No charge for labor, parts or topping of my hydro fluid. I did have to pay 1 hr of shop time for the service call. Seemed fair to me. Dealer told me up front that would be the case. Simple inexpensive repair so dealer probably willing to wait for reimbursement.
Doesn't sound right in your situation. That's not how a warranty would be honored if it were a car or truck.

 

[JimR]

I have dealership service Dept experience going back over 20 years at three dealerships with the following manufacturers at one time or another; New Holland, Kubota, Kioti, Mahindra, Gehl and several dozen short line manufacturers. I have absolutely never heard of such a thing. Matter of fact, your dealer should have sought preapproval for that warranty repair from Kioti. Had that happened there would be little or no question about their reimbursement.

The problem was that the dealer and Kioti did not know what was wrong with my tractor. For warranty work a dealer has to rely on Kioti support to figure it out and what the fix is.

 

[RandyT]

I have dealership service Dept experience going back over 20 years at three dealerships with the following manufacturers at one time or another; New Holland, Kubota, Kioti, Mahindra, Gehl and several dozen short line manufacturers. I have absolutely never heard of such a thing. Matter of fact, your dealer should have sought preapproval for that warranty repair from Kioti. Had that happened there would be little or no question about their reimbursement.

Actually even having preapproval doesn't guarantee payment by the company in some cases. You can have authorization for a warranty and still have the company deny the final warranty claim. Unfortunately many dealers have become gun shy doing warranty in recent years.

 

[jgedmond]

I hope Kioti monitors this thread and realizes the bad PR out there on their (or their dealers?) warranty practices. These types of experiences are not going to help their aggressive pricing / marketing strategies in North America. What good is it to save $5k on the purchase and not be able to use your tractor for months? IMO, nobody should have to go through what JimR did to get their brand new tractor working as it was designed to do.

As a new (1 1/2 months) Kioti owner, I am very concerned about the value of my warranty. While I hope that I never need it, you never know. However, I do know that it was built into the price that I paid for the tractor.

 

[BrkMstr]

The only time I have personally seen it come into play is when there is a question as to warranty coverage - from what you have explained maybe, since no one could pinpoint a cause, the old we'll fix it but you'll pay up front scenario came about, if it's warranty Kioti will reimburse, if it's non-warranty it's paid for, doing it that way allows the dealer to release the vehicle prior to a review of the report / parts etc being submitted to the factory for review / decision, and the dealer does not have to worry about getting paid. I do Know it's a lot easier to get immediate warranty response for known multiple documented issue rather than, "never had that happen" issues - on the never happens side they seem to always look at the owner for doing something they should not have - but I can tell you one thing, I think I'd be less pleasant then you, you seem to be pretty reasonable, which probably is a good thing - just have a good attorney picked out, just in case.....

 

[jgedmond]

The only time I have personally seen it come into play is when there is a question as to warranty coverage - from what you have explained maybe, since no one could pinpoint a cause, the old we'll fix it but you'll pay up front scenario came about, if it's warranty Kioti will reimburse, if it's non-warranty it's paid for, doing it that way allows the dealer to release the vehicle prior to a review of the report / parts etc being submitted to the factory for review / decision, and the dealer does not have to worry about getting paid. I do Know it's a lot easier to get immediate warranty response for known multiple documented issue rather than, "never had that happen" issues - on the never happens side they seem to always look at the owner for doing something they should not have - but I can tell you one thing, I think I'd be less pleasant then you, you seem to be pretty reasonable, which probably is a good thing - just have a good attorney picked out, just in case.....

That's all well and good, but I do not recall any hint that JimR did anything "wrong". If Kioti and the dealer do not understand what went wrong with no hint of owner mistreatment, then they need to make it right and sort it out corporately later. I do not see where the owner has anything to do with that. It is likely a design issue where the engineers missed some unintended consequence or a component failure with inadequate diagnostics. In my mind, the onus is on the manufacturer in this case and Kioti f**cked this up royally.

I do agree that JimR exhibited much more forbearance than 99% of people would have, I hope that they make it right for him.

 

[coobie]

I hope Kioti monitors this thread and realizes the bad PR out there on their (or their dealers?) warranty practices. These types of experiences are not going to help their aggressive pricing / marketing strategies in North America. What good is it to save $5k on the purchase and not be able to use your tractor for months? IMO, nobody should have to go through what JimR did to get their brand new tractor working as it was designed to do.

As a new (1 1/2 months) Kioti owner, I am very concerned about the value of my warranty. While I hope that I never need it, you never know. However, I do know that it was built into the price that I paid for the tractor.

+1 one on this comment.

 

[RickB]

Actually even having preapproval doesn't guarantee payment by the company in some cases. You can have authorization for a warranty and still have the company deny the final warranty claim. Unfortunately many dealers have become gun shy doing warranty in recent years.

I disagree. Preapproval includes full documentation of the failure and an agreement on the solution and reimbursement. That is why it is called preapproval. Been down the road too many times to believe anything else.

 

[RandyT]

I disagree. Preapproval includes full documentation of the failure and an agreement on the solution and reimbursement. That is why it is called preapproval. Been down the road too many times to believe anything else.

You have just never been on the receiving end of a pre authorized warranty repair with authorization number from the manufacturer and have it denied when the claim is submitted. Lucky for me it was just a safety switch and labor that they denied and not a major repair. Switch still worked but had a dead spot in it.

 

[finn1]

In that case, the claim should have been resubmitted by the dealer. The switch wasn’t designed with a dead spot in it, and you won’t find a dead spot specified on the drawing. The existence of a dead spot means it’s failed. End of story.

In the case of the plugged DPF, it sounds like an injector failed, causing excessive fueling on one cylinder and excessive smoke. As long as there is no evidence of water in the fuel, that’s a classic case of improper cleaning of fuel system parts, or an outright defective injector, bot of which are manufacturing defects if this happened on a low hour failure.

The dealer should not be holding the customer ransom in this case. Any disputes between the dealer or manufacturer, although the manufacturer does have the right to require preauthorization before the dealer throws parts at it..

The DPF could probably have been sent out for cleaning.

I would look for a different dealer, one with qualified engine and control system technicians.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

In that case, the claim should have been resubmitted by the dealer. The switch wasn’t designed with a dead spot in it, and you won’t find a dead spot specified on the drawing. The existence of a dead spot means it’s failed. End of story.

In the case of the plugged DPF, it sounds like an injector failed, causing excessive fueling on one cylinder and excessive smoke. As long as there is no evidence of water in the fuel, that’s a classic case of improper cleaning of fuel system parts, or an outright defective injector, bot of which are manufacturing defects if this happened on a low hour failure.

The dealer should not be holding the customer ransom in this case. Any disputes between the dealer or manufacturer, although the manufacturer does have the right to require preauthorization before the dealer throws parts at it..

The DPF could probably have been sent out for cleaning.

I would look for a different dealer, one with qualified engine and control system technicians.

Qualified tech wants $80K to start.

 

[JimR]

In that case, the claim should have been resubmitted by the dealer. The switch wasn稚 designed with a dead spot in it, and you won稚 find a dead spot specified on the drawing. The existence of a dead spot means it痴 failed. End of story.

In the case of the plugged DPF, it sounds like an injector failed, causing excessive fueling on one cylinder and excessive smoke. As long as there is no evidence of water in the fuel, that痴 a classic case of improper cleaning of fuel system parts, or an outright defective injector, bot of which are manufacturing defects if this happened on a low hour failure.

The dealer should not be holding the customer ransom in this case. Any disputes between the dealer or manufacturer, although the manufacturer does have the right to require preauthorization before the dealer throws parts at it..

The DPF could probably have been sent out for cleaning.

I would look for a different dealer, one with qualified engine and control system technicians.

So far I have not heard anything about my refund. I'll give them until the end of February to do that refund. Then it will be gloves off. I should also mention again that this dealer told me that they had a lot of problems contacting the Kioti rep and getting help with my problem. I do not blame the dealer for this out of pocket expense at this point. Nobody works for free, that includes myself.

 

[jimglassford]

Qualified tech wants $80K to start.

What was the point of your post?

 

[countrybumpkin]

What was the point of your post?

Finn1 was saying to find a dealer with a qualified technician. He’s saying a qualified trained technician wants 80 grand starting salary, most small dealers can’t afford to pay that.

 

[jimglassford]

Finn1 was saying to find a dealer with a qualified technician. He’s saying a qualified trained technician wants 80 grand starting salary, most small dealers can’t afford to pay that.

Makes sense. I read it differently. I thought he was saying a qualified tech at a dealership wants $80k to look at the OP's tractor.

 

[RickB]

Finn1 was saying to find a dealer with a qualified technician. He痴 saying a qualified trained technician wants 80 grand starting salary, most small dealers can稚 afford to pay that.

A good share of legitimate complaints about incompetence originate at small dealerships that wont pay anywhere near that. Fast forward a few years and there are posts wondering why _______ cancelled their dealer’s contract.

 

[aczlan]

A good share of legitimate complaints about incompetence originate at small dealerships that wont pay anywhere near that. Fast forward a few years and there are posts wondering why _______ cancelled their dealer’s contract.

We had some issues like that with a "off brand" tractor at work. A big part of the problem was that (reportedly) no one at the dealership knew how to talk to the computer in the tractor so they had to essentially be hand held by somebody at corporate to use the software.

Aaron Z

 

[finn1]

And that’s why the large, established old name companies, be it car companies, heavy truck companies, or ag equipment companies have been methodically eliminating the old mom and pop dealerships. Those small dealerships are mostly underfinanced and simply lack the resources and technology to service modern equipment.

The business model is evolving towards large franchises with multiple sales and service points. Some of the smaller imported lines don’t have the sales volume to support that, so they are stuck with unqualified service departments.