TESLA Electric Truck?

[jjp8182]

Given what was said earlier in this thread regarding the time replacement intervals for batteries it'll be interesting to see the effect on the used market value of electric vehicles that are approaching (or have exceed) the suggested replacement interval particularly as electric vehicles become more mainstream and the "gee-whiz" factor dies off (as it eventually does with almost all new technologies).

So just out of curiosity I checked out the localized KBB value of the cheapest all standard option of a 2012 Model S, which turned out to be a very respectable $21K-$25K -- however, even at that price the thought of having to fork out the previously mentioned $8K on a vehicle that's currently worth $21k-$25K doesn't sound very appealing -- especially if I wasn't the one that had been experiencing the gas-free years prior (or hadn't been setting aside the cash to pay for that battery change).

It'll be interesting to see how the used car market adapts ....or if mainstream electric cars will become "disposable" items when a battery change comes due. Which will potentially be even more interesting on a truck that may have seen an unknown level of use/abuse (both physical and electrical).

 

[ultrarunner]

Report from the trenches...

Neighbors son in law was taking the family to LA from SF for Thanksgiving... driving the Tesla with extended range... I think he would qualify as rich... he has been CEO of two companies people would recognize... I have only met him twice in 12 years.

Anyway... I5 to LA was closed at the Grapevine and traffic detoured to 101... which extended the distance and the best laid plans were now not possible... it took 9 hours and 15 minutes door to door because of additional charge time due to detour and waiting even with priority charge whatever that is???

Seems other EV owners were in the same predicament due to I5 being closed.

So yes they made it but it was an ordeal with anxiety if they would miss Thanksgiving altogether... he flew in late Wednesday and they left in the Tesla early Thursday...

 

[California]

It'll be interesting to see .... if mainstream electric cars will become "disposable" items when a battery change comes due.

I think there are already backstreet garages cobbling together salvaged battery components to make one usable battery. I've read of such for Prius batteries. Maybe cars sold with those batteries should have a 'salvage' title. Then later, legitimate Tesla battery rebuilders will appear.

There are rebuilt - and warrantied - automatic transmissions available off the shelf now from large-scale rebuilders and I expect EV batteries will follow that model.

And there's always the possibility of a substantial trade-in credit toward a new battery because the de-rated one can be resold for a home Powerwall.

 

[two_bit_score]

“Backalley Batteries” ...... name for an up and coming new enterprise in the world of EV.

 

[CHF4]

Ok? So letç—´ say every ICE is replaced with EV, you are making the point NO infrastructure will get overloaded?

It’s not going to happen like that; takes a while to build that many vehicles, takes a while for incremental upgrades with power companies.

 

[CHF4]

Your thinking is limited by believing a Supercharger is a gas station, that one is expected to be dependent upon Superchargers.

New V3 Superchargers are capable of 250kW initial charge rate. A newer Model 3 Long Range can start at that rate with a low battery. All Teslas slow the rate as battery charges. My 6 year old S starts at 120kW. But at home it charges at 40A @ 240VAC, 9.6kW. At home I get 29 miles into the battery per hour. Doesn't slow until the last 5 miles. I do not charge to 100% because I do not have to.

I spend about 30 seconds per day charging. Connecting the cable. Disconnecting the cable.

What you fail to understand about Superchargers is that their only purpose is to facilitate travel of more than 200 miles in a day. Makes travel not only possible by put practical. I can and have driven 540 miles in one day stopping 3 times for about 35 minutes each. While I have driven that route nonstop in ICE vehicles, it is not a good idea. What is the Federal regulation for OTR drivers? Stop every 2 hours?

People will need charge in x time I’d think vs the kw..and V3 may be a long while before it out everywhere? Maybe once they upgrade the S & X batteries they’ll start v3 upgrades? It’s taken years to put all these SC stations in.. will be interesting to see how it goes. Also my buddy traveling this past weekend in his 3 on the east coast saw only 50 & 75kw in his LR 3..but he only had one SC stop needed each way. I’m a fan for sure, though there’s some room for improvement. I want to see how the Taycan charging system goes- 15 mins for 80% is game changing- but - I know, limited to 0 locations at this point?

 

[5030]

Not sure about the charging rates but I assume that you can only drive the rate so fast and then you have an overheating issue with the battery pack.

I guess my issue comes from where the power originates. it's not some magical genie supplying the power to the charge station, it's fossil fueled and nuclear plants supplying the juice and they both pollute but in different ways.

People tend to discount the initial generation of the power heavily and play the 'green' dream. From that standpoint, I still prefer the infernal combustion engine. With that, I know where the related pollution originates at. With a plug in, not so much.

 

[CHF4]

Not sure about the charging rates but I assume that you can only drive the rate so fast and then you have an overheating issue with the battery pack.

I guess my issue comes from where the power originates. it's not some magical genie supplying the power to the charge station, it's fossil fueled and nuclear plants supplying the juice and they both pollute but in different ways.

People tend to discount the initial generation of the power heavily and play the 'green' dream. From that standpoint, I still prefer the infernal combustion engine. With that, I know where the related pollution originates at. With a plug in, not so much.

What’s interesting with the recent charging info coming out is that Tesla can actually preheat the battery on the way to the station so it will accept a charge faster. 180 miles in about 15 minutes. That being said, 280 miles in 15 minutes would be better.

I hear what you’re saying about the green dream etc. Personally I’d much much rather my hard earned dollars supporting the local power company workers & linemen with however they generate the power (nuclear, American coal or natural gas, solar during the day- we have some decent sized farms around us in NC) vs some middle eastern or other foreign government & workers.

Once you drive a real electric like a Tesla you’ll want that kind of instant power for every vehicle you own! (Maybe not the charging quite yet). I wish my Tractors & RTV were electric with instant torque & quiet. No waiting on them to warm up, not having to deal with price fluctuations on diesel etc. just take 10 seconds to put a plug in it when I parked (if needed). Granted I would miss the noise of my 75hp Massey (sometimes)- I would never miss the noise in the RTV- it’s diesel & loud.

 

[Fallon]

Not sure about the charging rates but I assume that you can only drive the rate so fast and then you have an overheating issue with the battery pack.

I guess my issue comes from where the power originates. it's not some magical genie supplying the power to the charge station, it's fossil fueled and nuclear plants supplying the juice and they both pollute but in different ways.

People tend to discount the initial generation of the power heavily and play the 'green' dream. From that standpoint, I still prefer the infernal combustion engine. With that, I know where the related pollution originates at. With a plug in, not so much.

With all the DEF & DPF on my new truck, I'd be happy to offload that to a stationary power plant. Without all the issues of the emissions gear bouncing down the road it can be optimized for more efficiency & get longer wear. Efficiency of a fixed power plant is a fair bit higher than in a mobile vehicle engine.

I'd assume the increased efficiency is somewhat canceled out by transmission losses. But it's going to be better at reducing emissions at utility scale than every tailpipe. As "green" energy scales up even more it can make a dent in carbon energy. They are already building a lot of wind farms without government subsidies as it still makes financial sense. Lots of issues with grid stability when the sun stops shining or the wind stops blowing. But we can get there slowly.

I just got a 2014 diesel this week. Really not looking forward to the DEF & DPF fun. I'm hoping my next truck in 5-10 years will be electric. Likely not a cybertruck, but maybe a 2nd gen electric truck of some sort.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

What’s interesting with the recent charging info coming out is that Tesla can actually preheat the battery on the way to the station so it will accept a charge faster. 180 miles in about 15 minutes. That being said, 280 miles in 15 minutes would be better.

I hear what you’re saying about the green dream etc. Personally I’d much much rather my hard earned dollars supporting the local power company workers & linemen with however they generate the power (nuclear, American coal or natural gas, solar during the day- we have some decent sized farms around us in NC) vs some middle eastern or other foreign government & workers.

Once you drive a real electric like a Tesla you’ll want that kind of instant power for every vehicle you own! (Maybe not the charging quite yet). I wish my Tractors & RTV were electric with instant torque & quiet. No waiting on them to warm up, not having to deal with price fluctuations on diesel etc. just take 10 seconds to put a plug in it when I parked (if needed). Granted I would miss the noise of my 75hp Massey (sometimes)- I would never miss the noise in the RTV- it’s diesel & loud.

Electric-car batteries recharge in ten minutes when the heat is on : Research Highlights

I recently learned about this factor when charging the Nissan Leaf with the 30 kWa battery at WalMart (Electrify America). With the battery cold (60F) vs war (90F-100F) the same amount of charge cost me 2x as much cold as warm for the same amount of charge. That is using the CHAmoDE DC charger. Since the charging fee is per minute you can see how much faster a heated battery can charge vs a cold battery. Charging a cold battery can lead to plating that leads to long term battery degradation.

Plating is explained in the above article and how to prevent it for longer EV battery life. It is my guess we are a few years away from learning the basic issues of EV ownership and their solutions. A Tesla bought in 2020 will be very different and better in 2025 even if the changes are only in EV batteries and their care with the rest of the physical car remaining the same.

By 2025 some think EV's will be cheaper to buy than an ICE based car of the same size and quality. Whenever that time comes consumers will stop demanding ICE based vehicles. At that time the current noise about ICE vs EV will go silent until the next paradigm shift that replace EV power for vehicles.

Yesterday driving the Subaru to the airport vs the Leaf drove home the drive-ability of an EV over an ICE that you mentioned. Taking off and stopping was a horse of a different color for sure. Both are much smoother in the Leaf vs Subaru. I am sure a Tesla would amplify the differences even more but I have not driven one. Driving a car with no transmission is just plain awesome in my experience.

None of our 5 tractors make a sound that I would miss personally.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

What’s interesting with the recent charging info coming out is that Tesla can actually preheat the battery on the way to the station so it will accept a charge faster. 180 miles in about 15 minutes. That being said, 280 miles in 15 minutes would be better.

I hear what you’re saying about the green dream etc. Personally I’d much much rather my hard earned dollars supporting the local power company workers & linemen with however they generate the power (nuclear, American coal or natural gas, solar during the day- we have some decent sized farms around us in NC) vs some middle eastern or other foreign government & workers.

Once you drive a real electric like a Tesla you’ll want that kind of instant power for every vehicle you own! (Maybe not the charging quite yet). I wish my Tractors & RTV were electric with instant torque & quiet. No waiting on them to warm up, not having to deal with price fluctuations on diesel etc. just take 10 seconds to put a plug in it when I parked (if needed). Granted I would miss the noise of my 75hp Massey (sometimes)- I would never miss the noise in the RTV- it’s diesel & loud.

Electric-car batteries recharge in ten minutes when the heat is on : Research Highlights

I recently learned about this factor when charging the Nissan Leaf with the 30 kWa battery at WalMart (Electrify America). With the battery cold (60F) vs warm (90F-100F) the same amount of charge cost me 2x as much cold as warm for the same amount of charge. That is using the CHAmoDE DC charger. Since the charging fee is per minute you can see how much faster a heated battery can charge vs a cold battery. Charging a cold battery can lead to plating that leads to long term battery degradation.

Plating is explained in the above article and how to prevent it for longer EV battery life. It is my guess we are a few years away from learning the basic issues of EV ownership and their solutions. A Tesla bought in 2020 will be very different and better in 2025 even if the changes are only in EV batteries and their care with the rest of the physical car remaining the same.

By 2025 some think EV's will be cheaper to buy than an ICE based car of the same size and quality. Whenever that time comes consumers will stop demanding ICE based vehicles. At that time the current noise about ICE vs EV will go silent until the next paradigm shift that replace EV power for vehicles.

Yesterday driving the Subaru to the airport vs the Leaf drove home the drive-ability of an EV over an ICE that you mentioned. Taking off and stopping was a horse of a different color for sure. Both are much smoother in the Leaf vs Subaru. I am sure a Tesla would amplify the differences even more but I have not driven one. Driving a car with no transmission is just plain awesome in my experience.

None of our 5 tractors make a sound that I would miss personally.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Whatç—´ interesting with the recent charging info coming out is that Tesla can actually preheat the battery on the way to the station so it will accept a charge faster. 180 miles in about 15 minutes. That being said, 280 miles in 15 minutes would be better.

I hear what youæ±*e saying about the green dream etc. Personally I壇 much much rather my hard earned dollars supporting the local power company workers & linemen with however they generate the power (nuclear, American coal or natural gas, solar during the day- we have some decent sized farms around us in NC) vs some middle eastern or other foreign government & workers.

Once you drive a real electric like a Tesla you値l want that kind of instant power for every vehicle you own! (Maybe not the charging quite yet). I wish my Tractors & RTV were electric with instant torque & quiet. No waiting on them to warm up, not having to deal with price fluctuations on diesel etc. just take 10 seconds to put a plug in it when I parked (if needed). Granted I would miss the noise of my 75hp Massey (sometimes)- I would never miss the noise in the RTV- it痴 diesel & loud.

Electric-car batteries recharge in ten minutes when the heat is on : Research Highlights

I recently learned about this factor when charging the Nissan Leaf with the 30 kWa battery at WalMart (Electrify America). With the battery cold (60F) vs warm (90F-100F) the same amount of charge cost me 2x as much cold as warm for the same amount of charge. That is using the CHAmoDE DC charger. Since the charging fee is per minute you can see how much faster a heated battery can charge vs a cold battery. Charging a cold battery can lead to plating that leads to long term battery degradation.

Plating is explained in the above article and how to prevent it for longer EV battery life. It is my guess we are a few years away from learning the basic issues of EV ownership and their solutions. A Tesla bought in 2020 will be very different and better in 2025 even if the changes are only in EV batteries and their care with the rest of the physical car remaining the same.

By 2025 some think EV's will be cheaper to buy than an ICE based car of the same size and quality. Whenever that time comes consumers will stop demanding ICE based vehicles. At that time the current noise about ICE vs EV will go silent until the next paradigm shift that replace EV power for vehicles.

Yesterday driving the Subaru to the airport vs the Leaf drove home the drive-ability of an EV over an ICE that you mentioned. Taking off and stopping was a horse of a different color for sure. Both are much smoother in the Leaf vs Subaru. I am sure a Tesla would amplify the differences even more but I have not driven one. Driving a car with no transmission is just plain awesome in my experience.

None of our 5 tractors make a sound that I would miss personally.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Convert km and Celsius to what we use.
Here's the translation...heating the batteries to 140 degrees Fahrenheit will give a range of 200 miles in 10 minutes.
What/how are you going to heat them to 140 degrees?
My car with a 400 mile range takes about 5 minutes to fill, regardless if it's 110F or --10F.
Article is under laboratory not real world conditions also. And if ALL the ICE powered cars, trucks, tractor trailers, tractors, mowers, etc. were replaced with electric, how do you believe that will impact the present power grid? Is that going to raise or lower our present electric rates?
How many oil companies and jobs will be lost? Five years ago in the US there were 1.4 MILLION jobs in the oil/gas/petroleum industry, not to mention garages, mechanics, machine shops, auto parts stores, etc.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Just watched a documentary on the Man, Musk. Quite interesting.

Snow conditions are such that it is about time to wrap it up for the E-Gator. Used the Diesel Mule last weekend to get some firewood. Man, what an assault on the senses after using the Gator most of the year. It's almost more noise than I can stand.

 

[zing]

Convert km and Celsius to what we use.

And if ALL the ICE powered cars, trucks, tractor trailers, tractors, mowers, etc. were replaced with electric, how do you believe that will impact the present power grid? Is that going to raise or lower our present electric rates?

Who's "we"? km and celsius is what I use, and I'm no spring chicken.

You keep predicting failure of the grid despite repeated responses that this is not going to happen overnight and it will not be every ICE in the world. To answer your question anyway though, I think you could look at the impact of the microprocessor on the power grid from 1980 to today. The introduction of personal computers, corporate datacenters, electronic appliances, personal phones and tablets, printers, games, 3-4 large tv's in every house, monitoring and surveillance systems, and uncountable other electronic items has had more impact on the power grid than the change from ICE to EV will have. The grid is still standing.

Source: Electricity Consumption - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

 

[John_Mc]

Sorry, but this "truck" is a joke...(apparently) designed by someone who has never used a truck for what it was designed to do in their life.

The truck is designed to fill the role that the vast majority of trucks sold today fill. If anyone is wondering, that role is not "serious work truck" owned by a contractor or someone who does long-haul towing; it's a "soccer mom/suburban dad truck", hauling family to events, maybe with some sports gear or some gardening supplies in the back. Why is it not a work truck? Because there is no reason at this point for him to design for a vehicle that accounts for such a small niche of truck sales.

I'm not saying I like Tesla's truck. I think it's butt-ugly. However, I can understand why he aimed for more of an "El Camino on steroids" than an F350.

When I think of a "real truck", I think of something with some character:

BTW: I bought this about a month after my wife got a Chevy Bolt (a vehicle we both like a lot, and which has been working out very well for us, though it could never be our only vehicle). My friends joke that I was simply offsetting her reduction in our carbon footprint.

 

[jjp8182]

I think there are already backstreet garages cobbling together salvaged battery components to make one usable battery. I've read of such for Prius batteries. Maybe cars sold with those batteries should have a 'salvage' title. Then later, legitimate Tesla battery rebuilders will appear.

There are rebuilt - and warrantied - automatic transmissions available off the shelf now from large-scale rebuilders and I expect EV batteries will follow that model.

And there's always the possibility of a substantial trade-in credit toward a new battery because the de-rated one can be resold for a home Powerwall.

I suspect it'll be interesting the first time one fails as it'd seem the potential liability severity and probability would be rather different...... not to mention the potential for finger pointing between the car manufacturer and the battery rebuilder (much like is seen between aircraft manufactures and aircraft engine manufacturers.

An interesting question comes to mind on the vehicle batteries: are the terminals always live? or are the batteries smart enough to have internal safeties to prevent unintended/short-circuiting connections of the terminals? .... while I'm aware of "smart" batteries, I've yet to hear of one with internal safeties that prevent unintended circuit completion. Granted it's probably not something that's needed for smaller batteries, but when the battery capacity starts to seem like "lightning in a jar" it'd seem prudent to have safeguards against unintentional discharge placed within the battery (much like some of the internal battery circuitry can/is designed to prevent cascading failures due to failure of a single cell).

 

[Fallon]

I suspect it'll be interesting the first time one fails as it'd seem the potential liability severity and probability would be rather different...... not to mention the potential for finger pointing between the car manufacturer and the battery rebuilder (much like is seen between aircraft manufactures and aircraft engine manufacturers.

An interesting question comes to mind on the vehicle batteries: are the terminals always live? or are the batteries smart enough to have internal safeties to prevent unintended/short-circuiting connections of the terminals? .... while I'm aware of "smart" batteries, I've yet to hear of one with internal safeties that prevent unintended circuit completion. Granted it's probably not something that's needed for smaller batteries, but when the battery capacity starts to seem like "lightning in a jar" it'd seem prudent to have safeguards against unintentional discharge placed within the battery (much like some of the internal battery circuitry can/is designed to prevent cascading failures due to failure of a single cell).

What firefighters need to know about electric car batteries

They have to be a bit careful where they stick jaws of life to avoid 300v+.

Other than the learning curve, there isnt massive differences between the danger of batteries & gas. Both are pretty explosive in many situations, being rather loose with the exact definition of explode. We've just had a longer time for most people getting use to handling gas as opposed to high density batteries.

 

[California]

A while back I viewed a YouTube vid of a guy who bought a Toyota hybrid cheap with a bad battery, rebuilt the battery with junkyard battery modules, and came out with a decent car for little cost. He kept saying you need to think before each step but aside from extreme caution there was nothing difficult about it. And he wasn't the first to do this, he referenced prior descriptions as his guide. I wish I could find that video now.

 

[4570Man]

Convert km and Celsius to what we use.
Here's the translation...heating the batteries to 140 degrees Fahrenheit will give a range of 200 miles in 10 minutes.
What/how are you going to heat them to 140 degrees?
My car with a 400 mile range takes about 5 minutes to fill, regardless if it's 110F or --10F.
Article is under laboratory not real world conditions also. And if ALL the ICE powered cars, trucks, tractor trailers, tractors, mowers, etc. were replaced with electric, how do you believe that will impact the present power grid? Is that going to raise or lower our present electric rates?
How many oil companies and jobs will be lost? Five years ago in the US there were 1.4 MILLION jobs in the oil/gas/petroleum industry, not to mention garages, mechanics, machine shops, auto parts stores, etc.

Who cares about job loss when you’re doing your part by boycotting the self checkouts?