Loader removal: what to do with hydro lines?

[68Futura]

Good morning everyone, I hope I'm not asking a question thats already been answered- I looked around a bit but didnt find anything.

I have a 1990 JI Case 380B, same as a Case IH 485, with a factory loader. I want to be able to remove the loader assembly, I need to add quick couplers to the hydro supply & return lines. Question is, after disconnecting the lines, do I have to loop the supply to the return to complete the system? The loader valve assy will stay with the loader, so it'll be only 2 main lines to disconnect. I called a couple Case dealers but they were no help. Is there a way for me to figured this out? Trial & error? Maybe figure out if the loader valve is open center or not? Thanks in advance everyone

 

[Birdhunter1]

If you disconnect a line between the control valve and the loader there will be no flow unless you engage the valve, therefore there is no need to loop them together. With couplers on them at this point you could supply hydraulic flow to power anything requiring hydraulics.

Being the 380 is an industrial i don't think the loader will be an easy task to remove, I could be wrong but most of them I have seen weren't really made to be taken off and put back on for fun or convenience.

 

[68Futura]

I just looked at it, the return looks like it dumps right into the rear axle, it doesnt go to any valve block (like my rear aux does, because they have reversable flow).

From what I understand, determining whether my loader valve is open or closed center would answer my questions, and I correct?

That being said, and thinking out loud, could I remove the return off my loader valve, put it in a bucket, and crank the engine a little bit to see if fluid flows with the loader valve in neutral position? I'm thinking this would tell me whether or not fluid flows with thw valve neutral.

Is my thinking way off track? I can post pictures of anything if needed

 

[68Futura]

Birdhunter1, tjanks for the reply. The loader comes off with only 2 bolts, I'm assuming its the same as a Ag loader. As far as the hydro, I get what your saying about the flow, but the loader valve will NOT stay with the tractor, it will be removed with the loader. I thought about doing it that way, but it would make the loader removal/install more complicated

 

[Roadworthy]

Look at the ends of your lines. If you need to loop them you will probably have one male and one female to connect to bypass the loader. If you don't need to loop them you may have plastic dust covers for each fitting. The owner's manual for the loader or the tractor should give some helpful information in that regard.

 

[68Futura]

Roadworthy, the supply and return are all the same at each end, I will post some pics if I can figure out how to... My owner and service manuals for the tractor are useless, I don't have any books for the loader

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Tractor data has it as an open center system. Put male-female couplers (1 set ea side) on the 4 ends that connect the loader valve to the tractor. If there are hoses at the tractor side, simply connect them together. If they are ridged mount, get a hose made and connect the tractor ends together. You need a loop so that the fluid can constantly flow.

 

[68Futura]

Thanks MtnView, figuring out the couplers and hoses wont be a problem. Essentially your saying to plumb the supply back into the return when the loader is off, right? Ok, lets say I do that and it turns out we're wrong about being open center, will it hurt anything? I wish there was a way for me to confirm that its open center

The 1st pic below is the supply & return at the loader valve, 2nd is the supply coming out of the tractor's system, and 3rd pic is the return below the axle

 

[Tx Jim]

Tractor data has it as an open center system. Put male-female couplers (1 set ea side) on the 4 ends that connect the loader valve to the tractor. If there are hoses at the tractor side, simply connect them together. If they are ridged mount, get a hose made and connect the tractor ends together. You need a loop so that the fluid can constantly flow.

Ditto if supply & return hoses for FEL control valve aren't looped together on open center hyd system when loader is removed hyd pump could be damaged when engine is started

 

[5030]

If the return line goes into the transmission case, it's power beyond.

 

[RickB]

Thanks MtnView, figuring out the couplers and hoses wont be a problem. Essentially your saying to plumb the supply back into the return when the loader is off, right? Ok, lets say I do that and it turns out we're wrong about being open center, will it hurt anything? I wish there was a way for me to confirm that its open center

The 1st pic below is the supply & return at the loader valve, 2nd is the supply coming out of the tractor's system, and 3rd pic is the return below the axle
View attachment 627119View attachment 627120View attachment 627121

It is open center. The system will function properly with the loader supply and return lines looped. If you run the tractor with the hoses disconnected you will ruin the pump in short order.

Your confirmation is the reference to tractordata.com and the unanimous responses you have received here.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks MtnView, figuring out the couplers and hoses wont be a problem. Essentially your saying to plumb the supply back into the return when the loader is off, right? Ok, lets say I do that and it turns out we're wrong about being open center, will it hurt anything? I wish there was a way for me to confirm that its open center

The 1st pic below is the supply & return at the loader valve, 2nd is the supply coming out of the tractor's system, and 3rd pic is the return below the axle
View attachment 627119View attachment 627120View attachment 627121

All you are doing by connecting the 2 is removing the valve. You will not hurt anything if it is actually a closed center system, you just will not be able to have pressure on any other valve.

Remedy if it is a closed center system, disconnect the loop.

 

[68Futura]

Ok, and from what I just read, power beyond is a constant flow deal, so I would have to loop the supply back to the return to complete the circuit. Correct?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Ok, and from what I just read, power beyond is a constant flow deal, so I would have to loop the supply back to the return to complete the circuit. Correct?

Is there a 3pt hitch on this tractor?

 

[68Futura]

It a does have a 3 pt hitch with aux hydraulics.

Ok, thats what I was looking for- knowing that if I loop it it wont damage anything either way. I will do that. Thanks everyone!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It a does have a 3 pt hitch with aux hydraulics.

Ok, thats what I was looking for- knowing that if I loop it it wont damage anything either way. I will do that. Thanks everyone!

Again, all the recommendations are based on an open center system. Tractor Data has been know to have in accurate information before. If you do what I have recommended, no damage will occur. Again, if it is not an open center system and is a closed center system, simply unplug the lines from each other and you should then be good to go.

 

[oldnslo]

Where is the relief valve located in this circuit? If in the loader valve you will need to install a relief that is not removed and protects your system if the newly installed quick disconnects uncouple while the engine is running

 

[RickB]

Again, all the recommendations are based on an open center system. Tractor Data has been know to have in accurate information before. If you do what I have recommended, no damage will occur. Again, if it is not an open center system and is a closed center system, simply unplug the lines from each other and you should then be good to go.

I have zero doubt this tractor is open center. IH never had closed center or PFC systems in a 3 or 4 cylinder tractor and introduced PFC in 6 cylinder tractors until about 1980. They never used a pure closed center non load sensing system.