Cylinder rod bent

polemidis · Oct 28, 2019

I noticed that the curl cylinder rod was bent! No leeks, and no idea how did this happen

So i disconnected it and took it to a hydraulic shop repair for an estimate: $560!!!!!!!!!!!! Wtf, I almost fell from the chair!!! I turned the quote down of course, and I called me LS tractor guy.
Brand new, $360 + shipping... still crazy expensive for my budget.

Any ideas? I can found cylinder on surpluscenter below $150 but I doubt I will found the same one. I found one with a crosstube that matches the pin size but the crosstube is too long.
Any suggestions/ideas? I am thinking to just buy this one and cut the crosstube so it fits.

Am i missing something?

The tractor is LS XG3140, the cylinder looks like its 2" bore (unless it is in metric, since it was made in S.Korea)

thank you guys!

LouNY · Oct 28, 2019

If you replace it with a different cylinder you may have to replace both of them if they don't have the same diameter bores the will pull unevenly.

countrybumpkin · Oct 28, 2019

Try bailey hydraulic, but as said if the replacement doesn’t match bore , rod diameter and stroke you would need to replace both with the same. As for the one you found, you could always trim the cross tube to fit.

Bailey International, LLC - your mobile hydraulics source

Roadworthy · Oct 28, 2019

As far as the bent rod - my guess would be it happened when you were pushing something.

radios1 · Oct 28, 2019

I'll guess the hydraulic relief valve was turned up, to the point that it was able to bend the rod because of the high pressure..

ptsg · Oct 28, 2019

radios1 said:
I'll guess the hydraulic relief valve was turned up, to the point that it was able to bend the rod because of the high pressure..

It's not that hard to bend a rod by just backdragging with the bucket in the wrong position.

570$ for a new machined rod? Wow. Those machine shop rates are really high up there.

I could machine one for less than 150$. The chrome rod stock would cost me maybe 25$.

radios1 · Oct 29, 2019

ptsg said:
It's not that hard to bend a rod by just backdragging with the bucket in the wrong position.

570$ for a new machined rod? Wow. Those machine shop rates are really high up there.

I could machine one for less than 150$. The chrome rod stock would cost me maybe 25$.

it's a lot more complex than just machining a new rod from the proper material. after machining, it has to be hardened to the proper hardness, then ground and polished to the final diameter..

oosik · Oct 29, 2019

JMHO - but - purchase a new one from your LS dealer. It should be a perfect match with the unbent one. Then do some serious thinking about what you might have done to bend it.

Remember - you have a tractor - not a bull dozer.

ptsg · Oct 29, 2019

radios1 said:
it's a lot more complex than just machining a new rod from the proper material. after machining, it has to be hardened to the proper hardness, then ground and polished to the final diameter..

You know you can buy chrome rod and just machine the ends needed, right? Go check my loader video where I made 4 loader cylinders. I bought pre honed tube and chrome and ground rod, so it's just a matter of machining what needs machining.

Besides, cylinder rods don't get hardened. At least not in this small equipment. If it was hardened, it would break, not bend.

Egon · Oct 29, 2019

Depending on the type of bend a machine shop should be able to straighten it.

I had one straightened about ten years ago and with the seals replaced it was under fifty dollars.

Shaneard · Oct 29, 2019

Egon said:
Depending on the type of bend a machine shop should be able to straighten it.

I had one straightened about ten years ago and with the seals replaced it was under fifty dollars.

^^^^This^^^^ Find a shop with a press and straighten it, what do you have to lose?

CobyRupert · Oct 29, 2019

Can I ask a dumb question?
Just did, so here's a few more: If there's no leak, what is the problem? Does cylinder not work/jam? Or how could it work if bent?

ptsg · Oct 29, 2019

CobyRupert said:
Can I ask a dumb question?
Just did, so here's a few more: If there's no leak, what is the problem? Does cylinder not work/jam? Or how could it work if bent?

If it's not leaking yet, it will be soon. There are tight clearances between the piston on the bore and between the rod on the gland. The bend can be enough for the piston to score the bore and the rod to bind on the gland.

LouNY · Oct 29, 2019

radios1 said:
it's a lot more complex than just machining a new rod from the proper material. after machining, it has to be hardened to the proper hardness, then ground and polished to the final diameter..

Not really it's just the rod, not the piston.
Pre-Cut Chrome Rod - Metric Dimensions (MM)

Besides which depending on bad the bend is I'd be tempted to try and straighten it right on the machine.
It's a loader not a space shuttle, the normal loading on that rod should be tension.
To get a large push load on the rod would normally be back draging with the bucket curled most of the way down.

polemidis · Oct 30, 2019

Thank you everybody for your inputs. I just got the cylinder back. ITs amazing how many seals there are!!!

So, this what I think is the most logical route: I will take the rod to another shop to try to straighten it. Nothing to loose here. It shouldn't cost much. The previous shop said that it is their policy to never straighten rods because they have seen them shutter and it is very dangerous. I will call a few other "smaller" size shops.
In case it does not work I will either try to match it or replace both. I am pretty sure that the cylinder is in metric and I am not confident I ccan found metric here. Just in case, what you think, would 2" bore would not work next to a 50mm? I am just curious.

I really have not idea how dis this happen. I have not touched the relief valve (yet), and I have not backdrag anything recently. What only make sense is when a log from my pile fell on the cylinder. But i recall I checked for damage, and had not noticed anything.

Anyway, I will keep you posted, and I will upload a picture of the rod later today.
Thank you all, I really appreciate it!

mikester · Oct 30, 2019

Shaneard said:
^^^^This^^^^ Find a shop with a press and straighten it, what do you have to lose?

Cool, I want to use that time machine too. Theres a lot of things Id like to do 10 years ago at 10 years ago prices. $50 to replaces seals AND straighten a rod...by the time you pay for the seals and electricity for the shop lights you wouldnt be making minimum wage.

polemidis · Oct 30, 2019

Update. I took it to another hydraulic shop to a smaller town

He does not want to straighten it up, but the quote for a new machine rod went down to $175!! Now we are talking! I didn't let it there though because I still want to try to straighten it. And because I felt like I was bothering him. And because his employee was painting a gearbox while it was drizzling (!?!). I got a bad sense...
Anyway, my next stop was a machinist (instead of a hydraulic repair shop). I told him that I do not want any warranty, if it breaks, it broke. No worries. Nothing to loose. He will try. for half labor hour ($35). It cant get better than this.
Now I have to research about all these seals. Would I be able to reassemble the cylinder on my own? I guess I need new seals ? Or could I reuse the old ones? The tractor has only 500hours on it, most of them using the logging winch.

Shaneard · Oct 30, 2019

polemidis said:
Update. I took it to another hydraulic shop to a smaller town He does not want to straighten it up, but the quote for a new machine rod went down to $175!! Now we are talking! I didn't let it there though because I still want to try to straighten it. And because I felt like I was bothering him. And because his employee was painting a gearbox while it was drizzling (!?!). I got a bad sense...
Anyway, my next stop was a machinist (instead of a hydraulic repair shop). I told him that I do not want any warranty, if it breaks, it broke. No worries. Nothing to loose. He will try. for half labor hour ($35). It cant get better than this.
Now I have to research about all these seals. Would I be able to reassemble the cylinder on my own? I guess I need new seals ? Or could I reuse the old ones? The tractor has only 500hours on it, most of them using the logging winch.

While it's apart, I would rebuild it. You'll regret it if you don't and it starts leaking. Any hydraulic cylinder shop should be able to get or make you a kit. You may be able to order one online.

ruffdog · Oct 30, 2019

Why did it bend? Most of the time if a curl cylinder breaks/bends is during back-dragging or hooking the bucket over a object to pull it out. When you fully curl the bucket down, there is little cylinder rod to tube overlap so then it can buckle fairly easily. There is a Messiks video about the subject.

How NOT to break your loader while back dragging - YouTube

Bent Cylinder Rods

: Follow these simple steps to prevent bending hydraulic cylinder rods

polemidis · Oct 30, 2019

ruffdog said:
Why did it bend? Most of the time if a curl cylinder breaks/bends is during back-dragging or hooking the bucket over a object to pull it out. When you fully curl the bucket down, there is little cylinder rod to tube overlap so then it can buckle fairly easily. There is a Messiks video about the subject.

How NOT to break your loader while back dragging - YouTube

Bent Cylinder Rods

: Follow these simple steps to prevent bending hydraulic cylinder rods

I really do not know. I assume when a log fell on the cylinder, even though I had checked for damage and I didnt see it. One possible scenario is that after the impact, by the time I cleared the scene ,I pulled the rod back in thats why I didn't noticed the damage. The bent is visible after 1/3 -1/2 f of the rod is extended. Anyway, lesson learned

Now I am trying to figure out where I can buy a seals kit for a 30mm rod-50mm cylinder