DPF/ DEF/ electronic fuel injection, etc

[kenmac]

What's a guy to do ?
Just pick your poison I guess. cause there will be issues.

Been looking for an local older non emissions tractor. They are difficult to come by

 

[Roadworthy]

New tractors over 25.5 horsepower are generally required to meet Tier 4 emission requirements. Lower power tractors fall below the line and have no extras to meet these requirements. If you need a larger tractor you may look for an older one - pre emissions. I'm not sure what year that would be but I think it's something like 2014 or older. If an owner has a good non emission tractor he'll usually hold onto it. You could try farm estate sales or something like that. Local dealers may have ones traded in but if they were working well they were probably not traded.

 

[kenmac]

yep. been looking at dealers Not much out there. 2013 have DPF, no DEF. have to go back to 2011-2012 to get no DPF

 

[RNeumann]

Step away from the Internet!!! ORT truck have logged millions and millions of miles with these emissions requirements. You will find issues with tires or hydraulics or anything else if you look long enough. You will be fine with whatever year you find. The bigger issue is finding a used machine in the size and brands you want. I gave up after a year of looking. It’s not that used ones don’t come up, it’s just that the good ones seem to go quick. Good luck on the hunt.

 

[5030]

Went through that this spring. Needed a second tractor and had to be at least 90 pto. Looked and looked for a pre 4 unit. Finally found one 300 mils away in pretty good shape so I grabbed it. Glad I did. Been offered thousands more than I bought it for. Not for sale.

2 larger ag tractors now, both pre 4 and both FWA. and fine with me.

The more complex they get emissions wise, the more chance they will fail.

 

[kenmac]

Step away from the Internet!!! ORT truck have logged millions and millions of miles with these emissions requirements. You will find issues with tires or hydraulics or anything else if you look long enough. You will be fine with whatever year you find. The bigger issue is finding a used machine in the size and brands you want. I gave up after a year of looking. It’s not that used ones don’t come up, it’s just that the good ones seem to go quick. Good luck on the hunt.

I know several OTR drivers. They have plenty of issues with their rigs.
Probably not as much as these tractors are having though.They are out on the road running all the time at high RPM. Unless you are plowing 3000+ acres, our tractors aren't running the required high RPMS to prevent many issues the dealers are seeing.

Emissions should have been mandated for tractors over 150 HP, not those of us that are using our tractors on a small farm
All the dealers I talk to say there are many issues with these emissions tractors.
So, If you got an emissions tractor that isn't having issues. You are one of the few

I'm still looking for the right 100 hp non emissions tractor.
There are plenty of low hr emission tractors on the chopping block.. Wonder why ? LOL

 

[5030]

I have 2. 2 M9000's both pre 4. Pre 4 tractors are getting real hard to find and command premium prices.

Far as the comment about post 4 trucks, I retired from a Freightliner dealership and my good friend and hunting partner is still the service manager there. I know for a fact that 80% of their shop work is directly emissions related and the parts are absurdly expensive. Just the 'one box' which contains the SCR and DPF components is 11 grand to replace and the 'soot filter' like are on tractors today is 1300 replacement or 600 to clean if it can be cleaned. Every time we go to lunch, there are always a number of tractors (semi, not tractors) sitting outside running and stinking because the dosing systems (DPF) are screwed up.

You can thank the EPA and Obama for it. It's all a joke and the joke is on you. If, and I say if the engine builders had taken the time to perfect it (Tier 4 components) it might work, but it don't with lowest bidder components and you as the end user, get to do the 'research'.

Not me. My tractors don't have any emissions junk on them. Neither dies my pickup truck and I won't buy an post 4 diesel.

 

[RickB]

I have 2. 2 M9000's both pre 4. Pre 4 tractors are getting real hard to find and command premium prices.

Far as the comment about post 4 trucks, I retired from a Freightliner dealership and my good friend and hunting partner is still the service manager there. I know for a fact that 80% of their shop work is directly emissions related and the parts are absurdly expensive. Just the 'one box' which contains the SCR and DPF components is 11 grand to replace and the 'soot filter' like are on tractors today is 1300 replacement or 600 to clean if it can be cleaned. Every time we go to lunch, there are always a number of tractors (semi, not tractors) sitting outside running and stinking because the dosing systems (DPF) are screwed up.

You can thank the EPA and Obama for it. It's all a joke and the joke is on you. If, and I say if the engine builders had taken the time to perfect it (Tier 4 components) it might work, but it don't with lowest bidder components and you as the end user, get to do the 'research'.

Not me. My tractors don't have any emissions junk on them. Neither dies my pickup truck and I won't buy an post 4 diesel.

Get your facts straight. Tier IV implementation was determined in 2004.
The President was a Republican.

 

[kenmac]

I don't think the prez had anything to do with it. It's overreach by the EPA. Congress should remove their power to enact such regulations.
Neither the R's Nor the D' are willing to strip the EPA of their over reaching authority

 

[5030]

Get your facts straight. Tier IV implementation was determined in 2004.
The President was a Republican.

...and Obama pushed it..... hard. I did get it straight. Tier 4 final wasn't fully implemented until the Obama administration. Irregardless, you now get to deal with it.

Could be an electric tractor in your future, who knows. Not in mine for sure. Come to think about that, didn't General Electric build an electric lawn tractor called (I think) an 'Electrak'? That was a flop.

In reality, tier 4 interim wasn't all that bad but anyone with a brain knew what was coming down the pike. Caterpillar comes to mind. They fiddled with the Tier 4 final crap and said 'thats all folks' and got out of the on road market entirely. I still remember the 3406 compliance engine with it's compound turbocharging and it's 'furnace' with of all things a sparkplug to 'light off the raw diesel' and burn the particulates before they reached the exhaust stack. Got terrible fuel mileage and was very problem prone. Then, they were gone. Today, I don't believe Cat offers reman parts for older engines, I think everything is aftermarket now but I'm not sure as I've been retired for a couple years now.

So, yes, Tier 4 was instituted before Obama's tenure but Obama gave it a head of steam (likewise with E-gas) and look at what we have today. Rudy Diesel would roll over in his grave if he saw how prostituted his beloved diesel engine has gotten.

I twisted wrenches for a lot of years (and still do for myself). I got to see it all and I had enough and got out.

Being enviromentally correct has a price and anyone with a Tier 4 final engine is paying it.

Again, none of that impacts me, my units are all Tier 4 interim, IOW, no electronics and no pollution enhancements.

 

[4570Man]

I know several OTR drivers. They have plenty of issues with their rigs.
Probably not as much as these tractors are having though.They are out on the road running all the time at high RPM. Unless you are plowing 3000+ acres, our tractors aren't running the required high RPMS to prevent many issues the dealers are seeing.

Emissions should have been mandated for tractors over 150 HP, not those of us that are using our tractors on a small farm
All the dealers I talk to say there are many issues with these emissions tractors.
So, If you got an emissions tractor that isn't having issues. You are one of the few

I'm still looking for the right 100 hp non emissions tractor.
There are plenty of low hr emission tractors on the chopping block.. Wonder why ? LOL

I have little doubt about the systems when used in a commercial environment. It’s the light use over 20 years where it’s probably going to cause big problems.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree.

I'll add, every one of us will own Tier IV or later versions. No exceptions.

 

[RickB]

I don't think the prez had anything to do with it. It's overreach by the EPA. Congress should remove their power to enact such regulations.
Neither the R's Nor the D' are willing to strip the EPA of their over reaching authority

I agree. And that is why I take exception to politicizing and finger pointing to further a personal agenda or philosophy.
They can take that crap to Facebook, we do not need it here at TBN.

 

[LouNY]

What bothers me is the EPA mandates for emissions are all based on parts per million or billion per gallon of fuel,
not PPM or PPB for so many HP at so many hours there is no benefit for efficiency or fuel economy which would most likely be better for the environment.
With the computer controlled electronically injected engines out now days the fuel consumption could be drastically reduce and overall emmissions reduced
with less issues and less people trying various methods to reduce the issues with the pollution devices.

 

[5030]

Like the 100 mpg carburetor that the automakers bought the rights to and quashed it. Could be Internet folklore but anything is possible.

 

[5030]

I don't worry about things I cannot control anyway. If fuel costs more or inputs go up, I just pass that cost increase along in the price of my product, in this case forage. Case in point, 46 granulated took a big jump last fall. Went up almost 5 bucks a bag so I rolled that cost into my per bale price and my customer never said squat. He knows what the costs are in as much as he's a livestock producer.

At least diesel (off road) is relatively stable. The 4 buck a gallon bad dream seems to have went away for the immediate future. I can actually klet me tractors idle and keep the ac on without feeling guilty.

 

[finn1]

What bothers me is the EPA mandates for emissions are all based on parts per million or billion per gallon of fuel,
not PPM or PPB for so many HP at so many hours there is no benefit for efficiency or fuel economy which would most likely be better for the environment.
With the computer controlled electronically injected engines out now days the fuel consumption could be drastically reduce and overall emmissions reduced
with less issues and less people trying various methods to reduce the issues with the pollution devices.

That痴 factually incorrect. Emissions are based on g/hp-hr, not ppm, for off highway and heavy duty engines. That means the more power you produce, the more total emissions you can shoot out the tailpipe into the atmosphere.

Light duty on highway emissions are g/mile.

 

[MHarryE]

Politicizing runs rampant on the Internet as I went through Tiers 1, 2, 3 and was well into Tier 4 where I work when I retired 1 week after Obama took office. Pre-emissions control was primitive, low pressure, dump more fuel in to get power and let it smoke. Europe with all its diesel cars and US port cities with their smog problems led the fight to clean the mess up. But here we go with the blame the non-WASP guy.

 

[RickB]

Politicizing runs rampant on the Internet as I went through Tiers 1, 2, 3 and was well into Tier 4 where I work when I retired 1 week after Obama took office. Pre-emissions control was primitive, low pressure, dump more fuel in to get power and let it smoke. Europe with all its diesel cars and US port cities with their smog problems led the fight to clean the mess up. But here we go with the blame the non-WASP guy.

Good post.

 

[kenmac]

I would love to buy a new tractor. I know I can't because for me, it's impossible to run 2500 RPMS from the minute I crank it until the minuet I shut it down.

Those large plowing farmers aren't going to see much problems (I don't think) . What I see and hear around me is the small farms where they can't /don't run wide open for long periods.

Since I fall within this group. I'm just going to locate (how ever long it takes) a pre emissions machine

You don't have to look far to find low hour almost new machines for sale. I can find many within a few miles of me.
There is no doubt in my mind why these tractors are on the market. JD,Kubota, Case, Mahindra, Massey, etc,. all DEF, and DPF