Branson 4220 rings PN

[Lhhippie]

Does anyone have a cheaper source for Branson 4220 piston rings other than the 土ourequipmentparts people?
Don稚 get me wrong they have everything but the pricing is crazy high!!!!!
1 set of rings is like 80 bucks

According to everything I have read I have a Cummins A2000 motor

Any info would be helpful!!

Thanks in advance

 

[Lhhippie]

Thank you for the out pouring of support from the group it has been extremely helpful.
Maybe I am in the wrong thread or possibly just asked a non-logical question.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Probably just no one knows how to help you.

Send a PM to "Mr. Bitz" here on the forums.

He's my dealer up here, and is usually very responsive to me anytime I call, but he doesn't get on the TBN forums much.

Wish I could help you, but I've never had to order any parts for mine, so I can't contribute more.

Good luck.

 

[Branson Bob]

Thank you for the out pouring of support from the group it has been extremely helpful.
Maybe I am in the wrong thread or possibly just asked a non-logical question.

Outpouring of support?

I just saw your post.

This person is a reputable Branson dealer: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/members/davestractor.html

 

[ptsg]

Wondering if these Cummins piston rings would fit?

https://partswecan.com/product/piston-ring-set-cummins-a2000-engine-aftermarket-diesel-engine-parts/

 

[Lhhippie]

Wondering if these Cummins piston rings would fit?

PISTON RING SET CUMMINS A2 ENGINE AFTERMARKET DIESEL ENGINE PARTS – ENGINE PARTS ONLINE STORE

I wish I knew?
I have read that a Cummins A2000 parts are interchangeable with the Kukje motor, but the aftermarket
Parts never have any specs associated with them. I have found a couple after markets sets but some say A2000 and they are for the 88mm bore
Mine is a 84mm (3.307)
First and second rings are .078” thick
Second ring is closer to .072” thick
Oiler ring is .118” thick

So I’m a little confused as to what I should actually purchase

Thanks for the lead I will reach out and see if they can provide any additional info??

 

[ptsg]

On this Cummins A2000 spec sheet, they do mention a 84 mm bore.

Yeah, if they could provide some info on those rings, would be awesome. That looks to be an attractive price though.

http://www.cumminspowerproducts.com/PowerUnits/Diesel/T2/A2000/A2000.pdf

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Is your engine already apart? If you're not going to bore/hone your block, can't you just measure your bore (check for max taper), take a couple of your rings with you and just go into a Cummins diesel shop and order some rings?

I've never built a diesel engine, but I've done a bunch of gas engines. I've never just "ordered" rings. I've always measured my bore first, then ordered pistons and rings based on those measurements.

 

[Lhhippie]

Is your engine already apart? If you're not going to bore/hone your block, can't you just measure your bore (check for max taper), take a couple of your rings with you and just go into a Cummins diesel shop and order some rings?

I've never built a diesel engine, but I've done a bunch of gas engines. I've never just "ordered" rings. I've always measured my bore first, then ordered pistons and rings based on those measurements.

In a perfect world that would great but I’m working with limited budget in this one.
Quick story .......
Bought it for 2500 with cracked head
New new 2000
New head gasket 80
New GP 110
New starter 150
All new fluids and filters 300’ish
New battery 200
Did I mention I’m broke????? I was told “new head and fire it up”!!! Not the case ugh

The bores look real good and they measure right around 3.309 so well with in spec for wear.
I plan on using the beaded hone tool too just break the glaze and a HF hone tool for the top ridges.
So my plan was to just replace with standard rings. That is why I would love to have specs for the original ring so I could see how much wear they have.
They are measuring.110” wide for top and second ring and Oiler is around .065”

I do appreciate all the comments

 

[ericm979]

You can measure the ring wear by measuring the ring end gap. My Branson 20/25 series manual from a couple years ago says:
top ring end gap .25-.40m
second ring .50-.70
oil ring .20-.40

all have limit of 1.5mm, which sounds like quite a lot.

For the 88mm bore they spec 88.005-88.025 limit 88.20. If your 84mm bore is supposed to spec between 84.005 and 84.024 and the limit is 84.2 then your 88.04 is a little beyond spec though well below the limit. A slightly large bore would make the ring gap larger. Given those assumptions above your gaps would be .05mm larger than the spec

 

[Lhhippie]

Wondering if these Cummins piston rings would fit?

PISTON RING SET CUMMINS A2 ENGINE AFTERMARKET DIESEL ENGINE PARTS – ENGINE PARTS ONLINE STORE

Can these prices be real???
Piston liner kit for 200, I wonder the chance of this fitting in my block??

 

[Lhhippie]

Wow that place has some ç*¥nbelievable prices
I can get a overhaul kit for less than a set of EOM rings!!!

https://partswecan.com/product/engi...a2000-engine-aftermarket-diesel-engine-parts/

Does anyone have any idea if this kit would fit the Branson (Kukje) block??
I did get a reply from Daveç—´ Tractors (immediate reply)!!!
That the Cummins A2000 rings should work so I知 now wondering if this overhaul kit (more specifically the liners) would fit???
If the liners fit my block I would feel very confident the pistons and rings in the kit would all work together.

I know aftermarket parts are lower quality but right now my tractor is nothing more than lawn art
Sorry for all the questions but just looking to not throw good Monday after bad.

 

[ptsg]

Keep in mind that one of the changes that Kukje made when they started building engines under Cummins license, was to not using cylinder lines.

There was a PDF somewhere, that had this changes mentioned in there.

Regarding the Cummins parts on a Kukje engine, we never know till someone takes a step further actually try this and post the results. It's a financial risk that not everyone are willing to take.

EDIT: There might be other suppliers for Cummins parts. That was just the first website I went to when I was doing some research on parts to help you. I don't have any feedback of that supplier, or any American one. I just live on the other side of the pond.

 

[Lhhippie]

Are the same ptsg that helped me on the other forum??

I have searched and searched and never came across that site you sent me. I’m wondering if you have different search results being across the pond?

I remember that pdf (I think you sent me that link as well) and also the manual I have been using.

Looking at my block it certainly looks like liners but I have never had an engine this far apart before


What are your thoughts do those look like liners??

 

[ptsg]

Indeed I am.

I've never dug into an engine that deep either. Or that "newer" for that matter. Usually I mess with older stuff (60's).

It looks like liners though. Looks like there is a recess for the liners to go in.

Found the PDF for the engine changes: http://engineprofessional.com/TB/TB020118-2.pdf

 

[LouNY]

Looking at those pics above they could be liners but I would lean more to it being machined for the head gasket having "fire rings" steel inserts in the gasket to compress into those valleys.
If you mike your pistons and measure your rings many good engine catalogs will have the ring dimensions in them.
When installing the new rings after honing the piston bores inserting the rings into the bore and dressing the end gap will give the best results.
Also you will find that there are many styles of compression rings and sometimes the reasoning for the different styles most of which will fit and work with standard machines piston grooves.
Then you can get into the many kinds of oil rings and there virtues.
Nothing say that you have to use a specific manufactures rings on your pistons as long as the dimensions are correct many will work.

 

[Lhhippie]

You are correct LouNY my gasket has the steel insert.
And thank you for the info, first time I have had a solid confirmation any ring that fits the dimensions will or should work.

Could I purchase rings for a say.... 3.310”
And adjust end gaps? Since it does appear my bore is close to upper end of the spec
I do still need to dress the bore and reconfirm bore.

 

[sd455dan]

Are the same ptsg that helped me on the other forum??

I have searched and searched and never came across that site you sent me. I知 wondering if you have different search results being across the pond?

I remember that pdf (I think you sent me that link as well) and also the manual I have been using.

Looking at my block it certainly looks like liners but I have never had an engine this far apart before
View attachment 611664View attachment 611665View attachment 611664View attachment 611665

What are your thoughts do those look like liners??

If those are liners the edge of the bottom of the liner is machined and may make it more obvious

looks like liners to me.

It may help to shoot a couple pics facing UP from under the crankshaft

The liners are machined on the bottom edge to fit into the machined block landing.

a parent block will just end in the castings shape since it just has to be finish bored and then honed.

Hope that makes some sense

some liners are removed by a plate that engages the edge of the liner at the bottom so it can be pulled up and out

ps Wow those are some great prices on parts at that linked suppliers site- almost to Good

an older 4720 Branson has been sitting at a local different brand dealer, have heard they (may) be having trouble getting parts.
although zooming in on #1 and #4 bore things don't look right- hopefully that is just the old head gasket pulled up

 

[Lhhippie]

I am almost certain they are sleeved.



Not only can I see the sleeve but there are also casting grooves around the diameter which I assume are there to help grab the sleeve and pull it up.

Question is what the heck goes back in.

Cummins made statement Kukje is going to manufacture and stopped using sleeves.
I have sleeves, ....... maybe I have a model before they stopped using sleeves??

My ESN is CM1L00247

Not something I have been able to cross reference yet

The pdf file ptsg supplied has a different numbering sequence, so again I am really confused as to what I actually have??

You guys are way smarter than I am maybe we can figure this out together.

The link ptsg supplied has a overhaul kit for Cummins A2000
Sleeves
Pistons
Rings
The works for 300 plus shipping

Did not think this was going to be such a mystery trying to find parts.

Regretting taking this project, Trina to save money ugh!!!!!

 

[ptsg]

The 4220 was produced between 2004 and 2005 according to Tractordata.

The liner info was for engines around those years also. I'm thinking that the tractors built between those years, might have been caught in the middle of something. So some may have liners and others don't. Hard to say.

It's very hard to find any solid info on older Bransons.