Hydraulics Help Needed

[buffumjr]

I am brand new to hydraulics.

I plan to build a front end loader attachment for my Kubota L175 starting September. This will be used primarily for road grading. I live on a dirt road, and the County carefully maintains it DURING ELECTION YEARS. On the off years, we're on our own. Right now, I'm using a home built box blade, but accuracy is not its forte. Wavy results.

When I choose levers and valves, is there any such thing as proportional control? Tiny changes for gentle push and fast changes for pushing the rest of the way? I notice the County's ten ton road grader seems to have this. If such may be found, what do I look for in the product description?

 

[oldnslo]

I suspect that a land plane would do much better at grading roads than a front loader.

For hydraulic control valves typically but not always higher priced name brands will provide better control than low cost models. Also valves sized to match flow rate typically provides better control.

 

[/pine]

I agree a loader is for hauling and moving material...they are not graders etc...
Put the money into hydraulics but for Top-N-Tilt not a loader...T&T will solve the problem with the box blade...or any other grading attachment...

 

[buffumjr]

I saw ChuckE2009 install that on a tractor on Youtube. Certainly a lot cheepa than building an end loader.

 

[RNeumann]

I agree a loader is for hauling and moving material...they are not graders etc...
Put the money into hydraulics but for Top-N-Tilt not a loader...T&T will solve the problem with the box blade...or any other grading attachment...

Yep- the front end isn’t the right approach for this. If the box is making wavy results TnT will help. I’d also look at a heavier box and or making some mounts to add weight to your existing box. Another option is some of the specialty road grading attachments from Everything Attachments or Land Pride.

 

[RNeumann]

How To - Tractor Land Plane - Gravel Road Maintenance - YouTube

New Land Leveler From Everything Attachments - YouTube

 

[farm boy00]

Another cheaper but not a great option is adding wheels to the back of your box blade or back blade.

First picture shows just a few ideas. But you want it further out to get better results like the 2nd picture. Then leave your top link unhooked and you can adjust your height with the 3pt

 

[ddbackhoe]

Another cheaper but not a great option is adding wheels to the back of your box blade or back blade.

First picture shows just a few ideas. But you want it further out to get better results like the 2nd picture. Then leave your top link unhooked and you can adjust your height with the 3ptView attachment 608959View attachment 608960

Sometimes you just need the right pointers on how to use what you have.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/122762-beginners-guide-using-box-blade.html

 

[Phantese]

I am brand new to hydraulics.

I plan to build a front end loader attachment for my Kubota L175 starting September. This will be used primarily for road grading. I live on a dirt road, and the County carefully maintains it DURING ELECTION YEARS. On the off years, we're on our own. Right now, I'm using a home built box blade, but accuracy is not its forte. Wavy results.

When I choose levers and valves, is there any such thing as proportional control? Tiny changes for gentle push and fast changes for pushing the rest of the way? I notice the County's ten ton road grader seems to have this. If such may be found, what do I look for in the product description?

I also have a home made Box blade, they are good but usually not as good as the bought ones. Mine had a rounded end on the cutting edge due to the Hardened plate I used. It was plenty heavy but I had to grind off some of the blade so it had a "sharper" edge to it (about 45 Deg angle) this helped a lot cutting into material rather than acting as a ramp to push over it. Just thought I'd mention the sharp edge because you said yours is homemade as well. Also the slower you drive the better results, the faster a Box blade goes the less effective it is in taking out small bumps, you'll get a washboard finish if you're going too fast. Also a tractor is much more effective pulling than pushing an implement, good luck!

 

[3Ts]

When I choose levers and valves, is there any such thing as proportional control? Tiny changes for gentle push and fast changes for pushing the rest of the way? I notice the County's ten ton road grader seems to have this. If such may be found, what do I look for in the product description?

First, check how you're going to tap into the tractor's hydraulic system. You probably have an open center system, but you should verify this.
Second, determine if you need to use the 3 pt when your loader is hooked up. If yes you'll need 3 hydraulic lines, if no you'll only need 2.
2 lines are for fluid in and a return to tank line
3 lines add a fluid out to the next valve (3ph) and needs the valve bank to be a power beyond

Your tractor seems to be rated at 3.7 gpm and 1700 psi so your valves should be rated near this, but not less than this. For ag tractors, typically when you move one lever, it shuts off all flow to any downstream valves. There are some valves that are metering valves you may want to look into, but i doubt you'll notice much difference. There are also fittings that include offrices of various sizes that will control the rate at which a cylinder moves.

As for proportional control and use of multiple valves at the same time - you'll only find it on construction equipment. It's not cheap to implement and for the most part ag equipment can get by without it. If you really need it, then you probably also need the construction equipment it goes on.

 

[ericm979]

Regular spool valves are proportional... more or less. How proportional depends on the quality of the valve, how well it's matched to the system, and what it's driving. I got to run a good size Kubota excavator for a little bit yesterday and the electric over hydraulic proportional control valves are miles better than anything I've used on a tractor or tractor backhoe. And it does the multiple valves at once thing much better too. But it's also a lot more expensive.

Spool valves should be sized for about 25% more flow than the system they're on.

Valves down stream of the loader valve on it's power beyond do not have to have power beyond ports themselves.

Loader valves should have a power beyond to run the 3pt hitch or other valves. You can get loader valves with two sticks or a joystick. I'd recommend a joystick, and a valve with a float position for the loader. Well matched and well made loader valves should let you raise/lower the loader and curl the bucket at the same time.

 

[/pine]

...Valves down stream of the loader valve on it's power beyond do not have to have power beyond ports themselves....

Then how does pressure get back to the 3PH if the former (loader valve) PB port now supplies the valve downstream instead of the 3PH...??

 

[ericm979]

The loader's PB connects to the new valve's in port. The new valve's out port goes to the 3pt's in port rather than to the tank.

 

[/pine]

The loader's PB connects to the new valve's in port. The new valve's out port goes to the 3pt's in port rather than to the tank.

Then why does the loader valve need both a return/tank and a PB port ? why doesn't the loader valve's tank line power the 3 PH ?

 

[ericm979]

Because with the PB and tank separate, there's always a guaranteed low pressure route to the tank. When you move the loader there's oil coming out of the cylinders and it needs a place to go. Without PB, if you operate a downstream valve at the same time as you move the loader, the loader would stop because it would see high pressure on both sides of the cylinders.

Assuming that your downstream valves and lines flow without much restriction, there should be no difference between PB and non PB loader valves when you're not operating a downstream valve.

I think some loader valves also can route some flow out PB when the loader is being used at less than full flow. Mine doesn't appear to (and that's what the manual says too).

 

[bigdeano]

My gravel driveway where I used to live would get washboard real bad because it was on a hill. I made a blade that mounts under the tractor just in front of the rear wheels, with arms that bolt to the 3ph arms, to raise and lower it. It worked great, and made the road nice and smooth. It's just a matter of the physics, where the front wheels going over a bump don't move the blade much. It's why road graders are made the way they are.

 

[RickB]

The loader's PB connects to the new valve's in port. The new valve's out port goes to the 3pt's in port rather than to the tank.

That is not a proper installation. When the 3pt load increases system pressure to near relief pressure the tank side of your non PB capable valve is subjected to this pressure and the spool seals usually fail. In a big way. The 3 point hitch valve IS a downstream valve.

Your posts 11 and 13 contradict each other.

 

[montelatici]

Pardon the interruption. But can each of you describe what you mean in detail? I am in the process of installing a new spool valve on a L3700 Kubota and I am now confused!

 

[3Ts]

Here's a diagram that came with the hydraulic spools when I added to my tractor. It's the best diagram I've seen that shows what needs to be done.

 

[ericm979]

That diagram is good but don't forget the 3pt valve in the transmission is the last in the chain. The added valve can't have it's output tee'd into the tank line or the 3pt won't work.