Commercial Property Insurance Question?

[ultrarunner]

My Dad and Uncle owned a parking lot in the city... it is paved with a small cashier hut and toilet.

To be on the safe side I placed a liability policy on the property when Mom inherited the property should someone "Trip and Fall"

New policy placed with my broker of 38 years and we have zero claim history.

Several years pass and Broker retires and policy gets assigned to new Broker/Office.

Just before Christmas Insurance company sends out someone to visit property and I receive a list of "Recommendations"

Add Fire Extinguishers, Paint Door of Hut and Restripe Lot...

No one Restripes in December or Jan, Feb, March, April, etc... wettest winter in years here.

Insurance Company says failure to complete "Recommendations" will result in cancellation...

I did not like the tone so I found another company to insure and notified the old company through Broker replacement coverage placed and to cancel...

Two months go by and received notice of cancellation in the mail from old company for failure to complete "Recommendations"

Fine but where is my refund of unearned premium... old company says it needs proof of new coverage... fine... I provide it.

Now old company states new company/coverage is not "Like for Like" and refuses refund with 6 months left on old policy.

This is taking way too much time... several of the parties have retired... lots of old line neighborhood Insurance Brokers retire or being forced out... a real consolidation happening.

At this point... thinking of filing a small claims action for unearned premium, file complaints with the State and BBB... it been six months of this non-sense... tired of chasing this.

 

[mrmikey]

Re: Commercial Property Question?

Now old company states new company/coverage is not "Like for Like" and refuses refund with 6 months left on old policy

So what concern is it of theirs if you even insure it as long as their butt is safe................Mike

 

[dusty3030]

If you have proof that you requested cancellation I'd fight them tooth and nail daily. It doesn't make a dimes difference what coverage you have now.

 

[Big Barn]

They are simply giving you the runaround and stalling hoping you will give up in frustration. Business as usual for them. Insurance companies do this all the time.

It would appear you are in the right. How you proceed will be up to you.

Good luck.

 

[Industrial Toys]

What could they care about a door being painted? Sounds like a case for Judge Judy.

 

[Jstpssng]

You need to be asking here, Consumer Information not on TBN.
That’s what you pay taxes for.

 

[ultrarunner]

My take is they no longer wanted to insure property in this part of town... just my opinion but I have run into it before here in Oakland.

Rather than jump through hoops regarding "Recommendations" which in itself is misleading... I simply fired them and found coverage elsewhere.

The Broker said my notification was not valid as it has to be on a form called an ACCORD.

OK... fine... but not a word back in two months... you have to be kidding.

I went to his office to sign the ACCORD and he found my email from 2 months prior... stating I have new coverage with XYZ company effective date and to process my refund...

It is almost like a jilted lover... not letting go...

PS… I contacted Tapco directly but was told they only work through their Broker network...

 

[ultrarunner]

You need to be asking here, Consumer Information not on TBN.
That’s what you pay taxes for.

Yep... filled out the complaint form last Sunday...

Only thinking others may have going down this road before.

Also, I am certain that having my original long term Broker retire and assigning my policy to a new Broker who was forced to close his business after 42 years isn't helping me... they have no clout as they are no longer generating business.

As an aside... they both are a little bitter saying they had a good run, ran an honest business for decades and found it harsh when the home office said they are consolidating and buying out their book of business... forced retirement as it were for the neighborhood Mom and Pops...

Last December I was closing on my new in the city home with fire hydrant on property and tile roof and fully fire sprinklered and was told Farmers is not longer writing new policies due to the California fires...

Thankfully, the Auto Club and Costco of all places said not a problem and were quite reasonable... they stepped up where Farmers bowed out.

 

[Jstpssng]

Yep... filled out the complaint form last Sunday...

I see, now you're just playing the waiting game.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yes... and venting and wondering if I should cut to the chase in Small Claims but it seems there is a mandatory Arbitration Clause...

 

[Jstpssng]

Yes... and venting and wondering if I should cut to the chase in Small Claims but it seems there is a mandatory Arbitration Clause...

That's just a way for them to commit legal thievery. It would be interested to see what grounds they have to not refund your money, insurance companies are a lot better at taking it than at paying it out.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I have experienced arbitration one time, and would never go through it again willingly. I would liken it to being subject to a high pressure sales pitch that had no ending, and you get exhausted and they carry you out. If you ever have to experience arbitration, I would set some ground rules, like start no earlier than 9 am, a 15 minute break every hour, end promptly at 5 pm. It's much cheaper than litigation, but AFAIK, you can have your lawyer present.

 

[Jstpssng]

I went through it once, all done online because I knew their lawyer would try to railroad me. I did recover my money after they had my money, interest free for 4 years. I couldn’t believe that she was allowed to lie; to insult me in an apparent attempt to make me lose my temper; she repeatedly refused to address an addition error of several hundred dollars; and when all was said and done it turned out that “binding arbitration” isn’t.

A month after I finally recieved and cashed my check I was notified that I was part of a class action suit agreement; according to the company’s own records I would have recieved about double my money back, if I hadnt already cashed the check.

 

[Oaktree]

they stepped up where Farmers bowed out.

I've not read much good about Farmers insurance. Funny tv ads, lousy customer service.

 

[HillStreet]

I worked in the insurance industry for 18 years as a loss control rep. We inspected businesses for all kinds of hazards depending on the lines of coverage. Staff inspectors were normally pretty good but all companies hire outsiders for a fee to take up slack or work with small business. We called most of them “Hector the Inspector”. They just write stuff to look important, and many junior underwriters follow their lead. For example, painting the door. Why? No insurance company will fix a door that rotted due to lack of paint because by definition an insurance claim must be “fortuitous, and sudden & accidental”. Insurance policies for such things are “manuscript” policies——— a finite number of words, all of which have been challenged and court tested. Cancellations are not taken lightly because of the state regulator oversight, and a claim could have occured 4 months ago and no notice made until now.

I do not defend insurance companies but think about it, it is money so many will take advantage of it. I have seen a homeowner file a claim on a fence that was struck by a car. It was an old, decayed wooden fence that has seen the best of times and could not have been worth more than $1000. The homeowner submitted a bill for $27,000 for a stone wall that replaced the fence. Turns out his good friend the mason built the fence and they were going to split $10000 overage on the bill. They both got a class B felony instead.

Do you want $5000? Look at your calendar for when it snowed last winter. Let’s just say it snowed January 9th. Get a lawyer today and say you fell on that date. Say this: You didn’t think you hurt yourself but your knee or back still hurts. Much better if you are marginally employed as nobody will judge but it helps your case. They will give you money to just drop the case as court defense is very expensive. I just say this to point out how some people take advantage of opportunity but most people are good people. Just my observations from years in the business.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

They are simply giving you the runaround and stalling hoping you will give up in frustration. Business as usual for them. Insurance companies do this all the time.

It would appear you are in the right. How you proceed will be up to you.

Good luck.

I agree with your take.

 

[ultrarunner]

I gave my new agent written permission to speak to the old company directly...

He thinks this will cut through the noise...

I do find it funny they expected/"Recommended" outside work in January, then would not discuss it or let me meet with the inspector which led to me finding a new Insurer... I cancel them and 6+ weeks later they cancel me...

Here is a question... when your insurance company cancels midway through policy wouldn't it seem this is the time when un-earned premium is due and a check accompanies the notice of cancellation?

Are we arguing over any refund or two months of refund based on the date I bought new insurance and the date they officially cancelled me...

Plus... there was nothing to cancel when they cancelled me as I had cancelled them 2 months prior...

The old Broker is doing business with Cell Phone... just tying up loose ends... almost 50 years in the industry and 40 with his own office and a staff of 4... to say he is bitter would be an understatement...

The week before he got notice he prepared a quote for me to take on 7 policies I have from my retired Farmers Broker...

 

[Dftodd]

I've not read much good about Farmers insurance. Funny tv ads, lousy customer service.

You should hear the horror stories about farmers after a couple tornados came through our area. Some very long time customers were left high and dry with only a tub and sink on a slab.

Hard to deal with on claims. Having to resubmit claims multiple times, provide proof of belongings, documentation, pictures, ect.....

 

[ultrarunner]

Thankfully I have never had a claim going back to the 1983...

Started with Fireman's Fund but they pulled out decades ago so switched to Farmers through family connection.

It does speak volumes that two long standing Farmer's Brokers in two different cities are both bitter how it all ended... basically told they would not be Farmers after a given date... but if they cooperated they would receive a check for their book of business...

Insurance here has not been easy... there have been several times when no one was writing or companies pulling out of California.

Fireman's simply dropped all policies under 500k back when a modest home here cost 150k...

On the last purchase I was starting to get worried as I needed to have a policy to Escrow to close... Costco was a shining star and I had never thought of Costco... I did go with my Auto Club who I have been with for Auto since 1980... it has been painless.

Hard to think of California State Auto Association pulling out of California was my rational...