Barn sticker shock. WOW!

[Larry Caldwell]

There's a really simple answer to this issue: Buy an ax and hatchet at a garage or estate sale for a few bucks. Chop down some trees on your property and hack out some beams, poles and siding. Pin it together with help from some neighbors or family and stand back to admire your work. Should only take a few months. Besides saving your gold coins, a lard filled body will be replaced by steel, muscle and a few calluses.

My dad did that about 1952. Dragging the poles to the site with a tractor scraped the bark off. He stood them on concrete piers, and they showed no sign of rot when he sold that farm 8 years later. Two bays were open for machinery storage, one bay was closed with a concrete floor for a shop. It didn't take months. He put it up between spring planting and harvest.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I agree!
A 12" floor makes no sense to me.
I have a 36x48 pole barn, and a 40x50 stick built.
Both have 4" concrete floors.

I am 1/3 mile from the ocean, in a 140 mph design code zone.
Insurance companies consider it a high risk zone and will not write individual policies (I am 40' above MSL)
I would be required to be in a state managed insurance pool,.... with absurd premiums.
I have Lloyds of London for insurance instead.

My 289 year old house (put together with pegs) is on the policy as well.
Crude stone and brick foundation there. No tie down.
I just wonder how many hurricanes it has been through.

I just finished a 36x60 shop and office. I used conventional 2x6 studs and engineered trusses. We're in the Cascadia fault zone, so shear walls and tiedowns are extreme. I did a monolithic slab with a 2x2 footing around the perimeter and 6" slab with #4 rebar grid 16# o/c. There's also a 10' concrete apron outside the doors. The slab was overbuilt because I want to bolt down some heavy vibrating shop equipment like a power hammer, and park a D8 on it if I need to. It has its own 200 amp electrical service, which required upgrading my service to 400 amp to accommodate the house and shop. It also has a quarter bath with a toilet and double mop sink next to the office, a parts room with floor to ceiling shelving, 14' eaves and two 12x12 coil doors. The shop has 1600 watts of LED shop lighting. What can I say? I like to see what I'm doing. It's in 3 banks switched separately, so I don't have to turn them all on at once. Bottom line for the project was $128k, all done by contractors.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Yep.

And these things concern me with building "kit" prices. Are they selling your a walk in door that will outlast you and your kids? Or are they selling you a door that you will hate everytime you go thru it? Will the windows seal and not sweat/frost over? Or will you know the outside temperature based on walking near the window? Will you be amazed at how smoothly the overhead doors operate? Or will you step out of the way each time you raise/lower them? These things need clarity before the first check is signed.

Some things are worth the extra money. Some are not. For example, I don't like door knobs on my shop walk in doors. I often go thru them with my arms full. I'll take a handle, regardless of cost.

When I turn on the lights I want to walk anywhere in the shop and not need additional lighting. I used T8 4ft six bulb fixtures with fluorescent bulbs. Great lighting. Horrible interference with my door openers. Had to convert them to LED. Wish I'd known that before I started.....

I expect flat, smooth, strong concrete. Cost me $10 p/square foot. Worth every penny.

I expect efficient heat. Cost me a LOT of money in insulation, quality insulated windows/doors, tightly built building.

These things are why my building cost three and half times my friend's building. Went to a birthday party in his shop this Winter. Stood within a couple feet of his wood stove all evening with my coat and hat on. Could feel the imperfections in his concrete just walking across it. Windows totally frosted over.

As Eddie is suggesting, educated shopping and choices will get where you want to be. But first you have to be clear about your expectations. My friend is happy with his building and I am happy for him.

With my shop I went with a split system heat pump for the office, just a can heater for the bathroom, a high BTU pellet stove for the shop, and a swamp cooler for shop AC. The climate around here is pretty dry in the summer, and a swamp cooler will do 20 degrees of cooling almost all the time. I'm a little nervous about the added humidity around all those expensive tools, so I guess I'll find out this summer. If it's a problem, I'll replace the swamp cooler with a heat pump. I went all white painted metal to minimize solar heat gain as much as possible.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Here, outbuildings don't really add much to the value of a property. Certainly not if you go high end and then only add a fraction of what they cost.

I may or may not get my money back on the shop. I built what I wanted, not what was cheapest. However, I have also sunk a bundle into the house, including tile and hardwood interior finish, a glorious custom kitchen, and most recently a wheelchair accessible master bath for our old age. I was looking at a very nice country house on 90 acres, most of which is only good for growing trees. To up the desirability, I built a shop that would make a nice small business industrial facility. It has its own driveway entrance off a paved county road, an office and bathroom, an ethernet connection to the house for internet access, and plenty of parking for heavy equipment.

I don't think the barn is worth much. The gazebo in the back yard overlooking the creek is a nice amenity, but I don't expect it's worth all that much. But what the heck, the place is paid for, and the wife and I might as well have what we like.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I just think it valuable for people not to harbour illusions that a fancy outbuilding automatically increases the value of the property in proportion to money spent.

Like guys selling some jazzed up vehicle. So and so much "Invested". That kills me. Pretty poor return on their investment if you ask me.

And don't forget the on-going cost of taxation. I know a friend who wanted to extend his already nice modern shop, but refused to give the municipality any more money in taxes, so didn't. I don't really agree. It's him that suffers in the end.

 

[EddieWalker]

While I agree that you probably wont get out of an outbuilding what you spend on it, there is a good chance that if you do it nice, that the property will sell a lot faster.

 

[fried1765]

I just finished a 36x60 shop and office. I used conventional 2x6 studs and engineered trusses. We're in the Cascadia fault zone, so shear walls and tiedowns are extreme. I did a monolithic slab with a 2x2 footing around the perimeter and 6" slab with #4 rebar grid 16# o/c. There's also a 10' concrete apron outside the doors. The slab was overbuilt because I want to bolt down some heavy vibrating shop equipment like a power hammer, and park a D8 on it if I need to. It has its own 200 amp electrical service, which required upgrading my service to 400 amp to accommodate the house and shop. It also has a quarter bath with a toilet and double mop sink next to the office, a parts room with floor to ceiling shelving, 14' eaves and two 12x12 coil doors. The shop has 1600 watts of LED shop lighting. What can I say? I like to see what I'm doing. It's in 3 banks switched separately, so I don't have to turn them all on at once. Bottom line for the project was $128k, all done by contractors.

Sounds fantastic!
VERY much too pricey for me though.

 

[fried1765]

I just think it valuable for people not to harbour illusions that a fancy outbuilding automatically increases the value of the property in proportion to money spent.

Like guys selling some jazzed up vehicle. So and so much "Invested". That kills me. Pretty poor return on their investment if you ask me.

And don't forget the on-going cost of taxation. I know a friend who wanted to extend his already nice modern shop, but refused to give the municipality any more money in taxes, so didn't. I don't really agree. It's him that suffers in the end.

So true!
My 36x48 and 40x50 buildings are both very nice.
Would likely cost $120K to replace them both.
What are they worth on my property?...Zero Minus!
They are essentially storage buildings situated on a $2M+ 12 acre water view piece of property, bordering a 1000 acre wildlife sanctuary.
My children will sell the property, and a developer will pay to have the buildings demolished.

 

[cat fever]

While I agree that you probably wont get out of an outbuilding what you spend on it, there is a good chance that if you do it nice, that the property will sell a lot faster.

I might have mentioned this when we sold our home in Utah. That new barn I built did add value and was the main reason my house was under contract in less that a week of listing. The couple that bought the place came 3 times before even looking at the house, every time they came it was straight to the barn. She was redesigning the barn from the first visit. Finally a couple days before closing they showed up and said, "we thought we should look at the house we're buying before we buy it."

 

[Ford850]

I might have mentioned this when we sold our home in Utah. That new barn I built did add value and was the main reason my house was under contract in less that a week of listing. The couple that bought the place came 3 times before even looking at the house, every time they came it was straight to the barn. She was redesigning the barn from the first visit. Finally a couple days before closing they showed up and said, "we thought we should look at the house we're buying before we buy it."

Priorities! :thumbsup: