First Post, First day owning a tractor, and I already need HELP! Kinda Long!

[HawkinsHollow]

Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen! Long time Lurker, first time posting. I have revered this forum for a long time due to the depth and breadth of knowledge contained within these pages, the helpful people and the amazing climate of respect that is missing from far too many forums. TBN is one of the greatest forums on the internet and you know it!

15 months ago I began living a dream I have dreamt about for all of my adult life. I bought 14 acres of heaven in the SE U.S. I never imagined I would be able to swing 14 ac. but everything fell into place perfectly. I lived those first 15 months without a tractor, needless to say it was time. This past Saturday I realized another longtime dream. I bought my first tractor; a 28 hp, 4x4, FEL beauty. This is a used 2003 with 470 miles on it, not a new tractor but a beautiful specimen for a 15 year old tractor. I bought it at a reputable dealer with a 30 day drivetrain warranty. I have been purposely vague and ambiguous about certain detail of the tractor, my location and the dealer to mostly protect the dealer from the rest of the matters I am going to discuss in this post as I believe he is reputable and want to give him a chance to make it right. I am here to gain insight into my issues as I am definitely a greenhorn when it comes to tractors. So here we go...

I took delivery today and instantly jumped in the seat and rode down the road to grab some gravel to fill in some mud holes. The gravel pile was up a paved road less than 1/4 mile from the house. I made 5 easy trips up there to grab gravel. Took my son on 2 of them and he was beside himself that he was actually riding in a tractor. As we paused at the house to grab our jackets to head over to my property to park the tractor for the night I noticed a substantial leak coming from under the tractor. The oil was grey, tan, ugly oil not your clean, clear oil you would hope to see. Upon further inspection it was coming from a rubber boot in the middle of the drive shaft under the tractor. The appearance of the oil and the awful condition of this rubber boot were startling considering both the owners son and the owner told me their mechanic goes over each used tractor they sell it insure they are sound and each tractor is given a full service. Of course I instantly call the owner and send him pictures of the oil and rubber boot. He hems and haws over what it could be but but in the end decides the only way to get to the bottom of it is have his delivery driver come back and bring it back down to their dealership an hour and a half away. I am hoping this was an oversight and someone forgot to do their due diligence and this one never got the service or attention it was supposed to. At this point I am still hoping for the best. I believe in this man and the reputation of his business.

MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU TRACTOR GURUS ARE: See pictures attached pictures

1. Why would this oil pouring out of the drive shaft have that color appearance and could it do longterm damage to the tractor?

2. Is there supposed to be oil in the driveshaft of a tractor? At first I thought the shaft was broken and some goof put a rubber sleeve over it as a bandaid. After further inspection that is not the case. There is supposed to be a joint there and the rubber gasket was wore out letting the oil spill out. But is there supposed to be oil there in the first place?

3. How mad about this should I be? Is this a big deal or will the tractor be fine if this dealer makes it right?

I guess that is all I have. Thank you for your precious time. I am so glad to be a part of this community. Have a good evening. Pictur

 

[grm61]

Looks to be full of water....oil water mix..milky, I would exercise your warranty....Id return the tractor if I could.....

Flood sale???

I would be pissed.

 

[two_bit_score]

Good luck!

 

[Andito]

I agree with grm, looks like water and oil mixed. That’s never a good combination for any kind of machinery. If you can return the tractor I would seriously consider it. If they won’t let you return it for a full refund then I’d make sure that the dealer changed ALL oils and filters on the tractor.

Good luck

 

[4570Man]

There’s water in the oil. I’d guess there’s supposed to be a seal to keep oil out of the driveshaft tube and the rubber boot is a dust seal. A flood sale might be jumping to conclusions but I do agree getting out might be a better plan. Just getting the water out will be expensive. Adding in the seal change which will vary significantly in price depending on how it’s designed and you’re getting pretty expensive. What transmission is the tractor? If it’s a straight shift the shifter boot is a likely source for rain to get in the oil.

 

[BertZegers]

Was the tractor heavily pressure washed? It seems to have a cab, so it would not be rain water. But the tractor should not leak oil anyway.
You mention 470 miles on it. Do you mean hours?

 

[rScotty]

MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU TRACTOR GURUS ARE: See pictures attached pictures

1. Why would this oil pouring out of the drive shaft have that color appearance and could it do longterm damage to the tractor?

2. Is there supposed to be oil in the driveshaft of a tractor? At first I thought the shaft was broken and some goof put a rubber sleeve over it as a bandaid. After further inspection that is not the case. There is supposed to be a joint there and the rubber gasket was wore out letting the oil spill out. But is there supposed to be oil there in the first place?

3. How mad about this should I be? Is this a big deal or will the tractor be fine if this dealer makes it right?

I guess that is all I have. Thank you for your precious time. I am so glad to be a part of this community. Have a good evening. Pictur

1. As others have said, that's what an oil and water mix looks like. Sort of milky. You've described it well.
2. No, there's no oil in there, just a 2" or so steel tube that shields a driveshaft that takes power from the the front output flange of the transmission and connects to the input flange on the center of the front axle differential. The shield can be one or two pieces generally connected together with a rubber boot.
Although there isn't normally any oil in the driveshaft shield, there is oil in the transmission and front axle. And there is an oil seal where the flange enters the transmission and the same thing at the front differential. It sounds like one or both of those oil seals are bad. That happens when 4wd is used a lot. It's common on used tractors and doesn't mean anything most of the time. If the seals can be replaced without opening the tranny or front axle then replacing them is maybe a 3 or 4 hour job at worst. If there is a U-joint on that driveshaft inspect it at this time, too.

2 1/2. What really matters is where the water came from. With a torn boot it could be that there is no problem at all and the water came from the DPO (Dread Previous Owner) doing FEL work in a creek or being maybe the tractor/trailer was towed through a heavy rainstorm. Or it could be just that the dealer gave it too aggressive of a power washing when he got it. He might have even caused the leak in the boot and not known it. It does look kinda soapy. Most water in oil looks more like chocolate milk and not so soapy. BTW, crappy oil & water won't hurt anything in the front driveshaft itself. After all, most driveshafts are open on cars. The only thing to lube in the shield tube is a U-joint if it has one and maybe some sliding splines. Degraded oil won't hurt either one.

But, there is a chance the water in the oil is in the transmission or front axle. Either one could lead to a bunch of problems that can take a year or more to surface. So If the dealer hasn't picked it up yet, be SURE to check the transmission oil and front axle oil for water. Maybe pull out a few ounces of each and label them. And take some good photos of the boot.
You be sure to check those oils too.

3. Mad?? Depends, read the paragraph right above. THere's a decent chance he didn't know about it, even though it is real common for tractors to leak a little bit there. Some do and some don't. I once bought a 30 hp used tractor that didn't show a sign of a leak there until a month had past and by then there was enough oil in the tube to start flowing out. My guess that time was that the DPO probably knew about the leak, but he had swabbed it out guessing that I wouldn't notice until it was too late to tell who to blame. But maybe he really didn't know.

As to how mad to get, it depends on how the rest of the tractor is working. If it's a nice tractor with a bad boot and decent driveshaft seals I'd let it pass. It really depends more on if the oily water is in the front axle (common in creek work) & might be OK or not depends on how long it has had water in it. Or if there is water in the oil in the transmission - which is very, very rare and would also mean that the hydraulic system has water in it - in which case you probably don't want the tractor.
Either way, get a warranty extension. Used warrantys typically start over at zero time if work has to be done. And time at the dealer doesn't count.
Luck,
rScotty
Oh, a set of new seals and aboot will cost from 20 to 50 bucks for parts takes half day to replace on most tractors, and should last 10 to 20 years depending on use.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Man I love TBN!! This why this forum is so great! Numerous honest and sincere replies in a short time. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES!! rScotty you went above and beyond!

It is kind of ironic. It was pouring rain today when my dealer called to ask if I still wanted to take delivery today. I was hesitant because I did not want the tractor to ride on the back of a truck in the pouring rain if it was going to cause some issue. Then I thought these are tractors, certainly they can take it. My dealer agreed with me that there should certainly be no negative outcomes from delivering the tractor in the rain.

It sounds pretty unanimous GET OUT! While I was laying under the tractor talking to my dealer I did discuss the possibility of getting my money back on this tractor, and my dealer said he would do that. So I have the option and it seems like I should take it. But that puts me back to square -1. This is after 6 hours in the car for 2 trips to and from this dealership, the week of tractor life I am losing, the look in my sons eyes as I tell him we no longer have a tractor that just yesterday he said we should never sell. I am leaning very heavily towards getting out. I am going to go check that tranny oil and see how it looks.

Stay tuned...
Thanks again for your help!

 

[fishheadbob]

Your dealer will check the oil levels on your tractor trying to find what is losing fluid. Could be a seal somewhere or another.
When I look at the 3rd picture you posted things don't look right with the small hoses; maybe one of them is rubbing against the driveshaft and has worn through which should be an easy fix.
Good luck, hope your dealer is a standup guy.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Doesn't look good. Checked the rear oil sight glass, it is milky white. Front oil filler cap has milky residue in it (couldn't find sight glass at 7 this morning). Let's see what this dealer is made of. I hope and pray he is a man of his word.

 

[D2Cat]

You say, " This is after 6 hours in the car for 2 trips to and from this dealership, the week of tractor life I am losing..."

Sound like a pretty easy schooling to me. The way one learns about anything to to study, make decisions, then learn from the decisions.

Sounds like you have a dealer that is much easier to get along with than most. I'd have him change out all fluids, fix the cause of the leak, and then determine if you keep the machine or not. He's already offered you an alternative! And you may discover the cause of the problem and have a fine machine.

You location might also help determine the possibility of a flooded tractor. If in Houston the chances are much greater than Minneapolis.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

You say, " This is after 6 hours in the car for 2 trips to and from this dealership, the week of tractor life I am losing..."

Sound like a pretty easy schooling to me. The way one learns about anything to to study, make decisions, then learn from the decisions.

Sounds like you have a dealer that is much easier to get along with than most. I'd have him change out all fluids, fix the cause of the leak, and then determine if you keep the machine or not. He's already offered you an alternative! And you may discover the cause of the problem and have a fine machine.

You location might also help determine the possibility of a flooded tractor. If in Houston the chances are much greater than Minneapolis.

Very True D2Cat! Thank you for seeing the glass half full in this situation. I feel like I am getting out easy, I guess. I talked to my dealer today and he is sending me a refund check with his driver this afternoon. But truthfully I don't want my money back I want a tractor! Back to the drawing board!

How many of you would try to stick it out with this tractor? I am considering it, but I'm going to get my refund check back and proceed from there.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[two_bit_score]

Very True D2Cat! Thank you for seeing the glass half full in this situation. I feel like I am getting out easy, I guess. I talked to my dealer today and he is sending me a refund check with his driver this afternoon. But truthfully I don't want my money back I want a tractor! Back to the drawing board!

How many of you would try to stick it out with this tractor? I am considering it, but I'm going to get my refund check back and proceed from there.

Thanks again for all your help!

I think that is a smart move on your part. And good customer service from your dealer!


Nothing stopping you from going back to that tractor after they find out what the problem is and correct it, if they can.


.

 

[fried1765]

Very True D2Cat! Thank you for seeing the glass half full in this situation. I feel like I am getting out easy, I guess. I talked to my dealer today and he is sending me a refund check with his driver this afternoon. But truthfully I don't want my money back I want a tractor! Back to the drawing board!

How many of you would try to stick it out with this tractor? I am considering it, but I'm going to get my refund check back and proceed from there.

Thanks again for all your help!

You are VERY fortunate that you have such a stand up dealer.
Many dealers would have not reacted in the same manner.

Now comes the enjoyable part.....looking for another tractor.
I am serious! I love the hunt!

 

[coldsteelva]

Once you receive your refund from the dealer and the check clears, I think you should identify this dealer by name AND sing his praises. Your profile doesn't indicate where specifically you are (I understand the original vagueness), but others in the vicinity may give this guy some business simply because of how he handled your situation.

As has been said, although the dealer did what was the obviously correct thing to do, some dealers may not have (and wouldn't have to) and for that, this particular dealer should be commended.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

I agree this is good customer service on the part of my dealer. He did the right thing. BUT, this begs the question as to how could he have let this tractor leave his lot in this condition. He sat there and told me he would never let a used tractor leave his lot without his mechanic giving it a good top to bottom check. It is OBVIOUS by the condition of the oil and rubber boot that this was not given a good top to bottom check. The only other possible thing is they knew the issues and tried to unload it as quick as possible. These are the questions I have. Both scenerios do not speak well for the dealer. Once I get a chance later I am going to call him back and try to see if he has an answer for these questions.

 

[two_bit_score]

I agree this is good customer service on the part of my dealer. He did the right thing. BUT, this begs the question as to how could he have let this tractor leave his lot in this condition. He sat there and told me he would never let a used tractor leave his lot without his mechanic giving it a good top to bottom check. It is OBVIOUS by the condition of the oil and rubber boot that this was not given a good top to bottom check. The only other possible thing is they knew the issues and tried to unload it as quick as possible. These are the questions I have. Both scenerios do not speak well for the dealer. Once I get a chance later I am going to call him back and try to see if he has an answer for these questions.

You are right to want those answers. You should ask those of the dealer and if he provides satisfactory responses you might want to continue with that good relationship.

I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point pending satisfactory answers to your questions.



TBS

 

[TractorGuy]

I agree this is good customer service on the part of my dealer. He did the right thing. BUT, this begs the question as to how could he have let this tractor leave his lot in this condition. He sat there and told me he would never let a used tractor leave his lot without his mechanic giving it a good top to bottom check. It is OBVIOUS by the condition of the oil and rubber boot that this was not given a good top to bottom check. The only other possible thing is they knew the issues and tried to unload it as quick as possible. These are the questions I have. Both scenerios do not speak well for the dealer. Once I get a chance later I am going to call him back and try to see if he has an answer for these questions.

Your dealer is probably the victim of an unscrupulous employee. He probably paid his mechanic to check it out and it just didn't get done. My guess is this dealer may have an ad running for a mechanic soon.

 

[LouNY]

I just browsed through this thread, no where did I see a mention of what transmission this tractor has.
I would be leery of this tractor because of the 2 pics showing the milky fluid, one was the hydraulic/transmission level glass the other to me looked like an engine oil fill.
The transmission hydraulic fluid could have looked fine when the tractor had been setting as water will separate back out from hydraulic fluid after a time.
When it gets run long enough to warm up the fluid it will start to emulsify the oil water mix to the milky appearance, if continually run it can with an increase in heat actually start to cook the water out creating pressure in the system that will push fluid past seals and even push some seals out.
That few hours on that old of a tractor tells me that it didn't get used long enough to cook any moisture out of the hydraulics and engine.
And the possibility exists that it was a flood victim, either way it would need a few oil changes and getting well warmed up to clear the moisture out of all the systems.
The original poster is most likely better off getting away from that unit.

When evaluating any equipment the oil fill caps, dipsticks and sight glasses need careful inspection for signs of moisture or milky residue..

 

[HawkinsHollow]

The transmission is a 12 speed shuttle shift.