Fallon
Super Member
Correct. I've seen a good number of GFCI circuits shared between the garage & a bathroom.
It might be confusing to have it wired up like that, but it's safe (assuming of course its otherwise wired to code).
Your last generator Maintenance Run
- Thread starter 3930dave
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It might be confusing to have it wired up like that, but it's safe (assuming of course its otherwise wired to code).
ultrarunner
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When I must have GFCI I never share... even if it is in a quad outlet.
I also like the ones with the indicator light... this way I can talk a tenant through basic trouble shooting.
I just paid a $180 service call to an electrician to reset a circuit breaker in the rental in Washington... turns out the tenant had twisted the light bulb socket replacing the bulb in the tenant's table lamp...
Property management calls and said no power in the living and dining room... tenant checked circuit breakers... we need to call Electrician to check for faulty wiring as a matter of safety...
Another time a tenant owned refrigerator tripped the GFCI and I was suppose to pay for spoilage...
Thing is the tenant did not use the dedicated outlet behind the refrigerator but used a cheap extension cord to a counter GFCI outlet... the extension cord was defective and the GFCI was only doing it's job.
I own a number of small generators and none have GFCI... I do have a heavy duty GFCI extension cord I use outside...
All the outlets in my home predate GFCI...
I also like the ones with the indicator light... this way I can talk a tenant through basic trouble shooting.
I just paid a $180 service call to an electrician to reset a circuit breaker in the rental in Washington... turns out the tenant had twisted the light bulb socket replacing the bulb in the tenant's table lamp...
Property management calls and said no power in the living and dining room... tenant checked circuit breakers... we need to call Electrician to check for faulty wiring as a matter of safety...
Another time a tenant owned refrigerator tripped the GFCI and I was suppose to pay for spoilage...
Thing is the tenant did not use the dedicated outlet behind the refrigerator but used a cheap extension cord to a counter GFCI outlet... the extension cord was defective and the GFCI was only doing it's job.
I own a number of small generators and none have GFCI... I do have a heavy duty GFCI extension cord I use outside...
All the outlets in my home predate GFCI...
daybreak1998
Silver Member
Howdy,
Here lies the problem.
Any and all generators should have a good earth ground no matter where it is running.
in the field, a small 1000 watt handheld generator should have a ground wire to a ground rod. A 10kw generator running should be wired to a ground.
The location of the ground will be different per location and connection.
A normal house with no generator has a main service panel. This main service panel is where the ground and neutral are wired together. (Bonded)
When you want to connect a generator to a house, you use a 4 wire connection, the generator itself unbonded, since the bond is in the main service panel. (hot + hot + Neutral + Ground)
You want only one ground+neutral bonding location.
!! Now back on topic !!
The local electric is doing well here. Frigid temps and wind, and no power loss.
Here lies the problem.
Any and all generators should have a good earth ground no matter where it is running.
in the field, a small 1000 watt handheld generator should have a ground wire to a ground rod. A 10kw generator running should be wired to a ground.
The location of the ground will be different per location and connection.
A normal house with no generator has a main service panel. This main service panel is where the ground and neutral are wired together. (Bonded)
When you want to connect a generator to a house, you use a 4 wire connection, the generator itself unbonded, since the bond is in the main service panel. (hot + hot + Neutral + Ground)
You want only one ground+neutral bonding location.
!! Now back on topic !!
The local electric is doing well here. Frigid temps and wind, and no power loss.
goeduck
Super Star Member
Actually I think this ground-nuetral bonding subject is the most important topic in the thread. If the generator has a bonded neutral (given the advise to not modify a generator), there seems to be no way to have one ground-nuetral bond if connected to a house.
1. Given the above it would seem the generators metal frame should not be sitting on the ground to avoid a second path to ground and there should be no dedicated ground?
2. It would seem these bonded generators should only be used is a plug in style and that they are disconnected and the second is bond is eliminated when on normal power?
1. Given the above it would seem the generators metal frame should not be sitting on the ground to avoid a second path to ground and there should be no dedicated ground?
2. It would seem these bonded generators should only be used is a plug in style and that they are disconnected and the second is bond is eliminated when on normal power?
This has been a productive discussion.
While they should be, in temporary portable use many generators often don't get attached to a driven ground rod..... rendering a working GFCI of some sort even more important.
A licensed sparky, setting up a gen for a public event would be foolish to not drive a ground rod.... much of the time, portable gens are not that well supervised.
Assuming that you have earth (dirt) to drive one into, that would make having a ground rod and sledge hammer part of a complete portable gen kit. Camping at Moab, bring a serious rock-drill !
Maybe I haven't hit the gym enough over the years, but given the experience I've had getting driven rods back out of the ground, I'd be adding a Hi-Lift jack to that kit. I'd be welding an eye to the top of that rod for pulling.
I really don't like hitting stuff somebody else has left driven into the ground, so I'd want to Pull What I've Pounded for temporary setups.
With today's available ultra-light gens, my Ultimate Grounding Kit is going to seriously out-weigh many of them ! :laughing:
Rgds, D.
While they should be, in temporary portable use many generators often don't get attached to a driven ground rod..... rendering a working GFCI of some sort even more important.
A licensed sparky, setting up a gen for a public event would be foolish to not drive a ground rod.... much of the time, portable gens are not that well supervised.
Assuming that you have earth (dirt) to drive one into, that would make having a ground rod and sledge hammer part of a complete portable gen kit. Camping at Moab, bring a serious rock-drill !
Maybe I haven't hit the gym enough over the years, but given the experience I've had getting driven rods back out of the ground, I'd be adding a Hi-Lift jack to that kit. I'd be welding an eye to the top of that rod for pulling.
I really don't like hitting stuff somebody else has left driven into the ground, so I'd want to Pull What I've Pounded for temporary setups.
With today's available ultra-light gens, my Ultimate Grounding Kit is going to seriously out-weigh many of them ! :laughing:
Rgds, D.
Industrial Toys
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Last summer in the course of trying to figure out my neighbors stray voltage issue, I did tests and saw how poor a ground rod conducts to earth. For lightning protection, sure, it's essential, but for any other purpose, I can't see it.
ultrarunner
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I guess I have been doing it wrong since I mounted the Honda in my Service Van... no ground wire and it sits on rubber feet.
I tried to run it yesterday and found I have carb issues... which keeps the small engine shops very busy the last few years!
I tried to run it yesterday and found I have carb issues... which keeps the small engine shops very busy the last few years!
Date: Feb 03/19
Generator: 2kw Briggs
Activity: Coming out of a "chilly" snap here, decided to fire up the 2kw late yesterday afternoon. Did not want to fire. Pulled enough that the plug was likely wet.
I agree with SR about small gens; brought it into the house overnight for warming, and also dosed the tank with a few dribbles of Smurf Pee (aka Startron).
Fired it up in the shed today; first pull it roared right up. Ran for 45 minutes loaded with a 1000 watt heater. Last few minutes ran at 1500 watt load.
Final Fueling notes: filled w. NonE gas. Red Stabil already in fuel can. Also added dribbles of Startron.
Maintenance notes (Done, or Required): Next-day start was first pull, at full-choke. Set minder for next run no more than 3 months out. Fuel cap good.
Temperature: 5 deg C.
Rgds, D.
Generator: 2kw Briggs
Activity: Coming out of a "chilly" snap here, decided to fire up the 2kw late yesterday afternoon. Did not want to fire. Pulled enough that the plug was likely wet.
I agree with SR about small gens; brought it into the house overnight for warming, and also dosed the tank with a few dribbles of Smurf Pee (aka Startron).
Fired it up in the shed today; first pull it roared right up. Ran for 45 minutes loaded with a 1000 watt heater. Last few minutes ran at 1500 watt load.
Final Fueling notes: filled w. NonE gas. Red Stabil already in fuel can. Also added dribbles of Startron.
Maintenance notes (Done, or Required): Next-day start was first pull, at full-choke. Set minder for next run no more than 3 months out. Fuel cap good.
Temperature: 5 deg C.
Rgds, D.
Adequate grounding..... that's a serious engineering thread right there ! Not that I mind it being knocked around as a subject here....
For temporary portable use, practically-speaking, I'd say a ground rod is close to the old sabre-toothed tiger joke...... you don't have to run faster than the tiger, just faster than the next guy......
Setting up a reference ground for an instrumentation lab..... that's a whole other (major) project......
Water table, soil type, salinity...... many factors go into determining a ground-rod array.
Rgds, D.
