Cattle

[kenmac]

Been thinking about getting into the cattle business. It would be small (10-15) cows.
I have no knowledge of the business, or what to do. So it would be a learning process.
Just thought I would try to make a little money, and have some help with the grass.

I just don't know if there is any money to be made in a small operation. I sure don't want to get myself into allot of work with very little,or no return.


I have discussed this with some of these older guys around me. About all I can get out of them is....
''Do you know know how to make a small fortune in the cow business ? I say no. The say start with a large fortune'' ! LOL

The thing is, They still have cows. When I ask why, they say. ''it's just a hobby, it gives me something to do''

So, any advise about getting cows, or not, would be appreciated

 

[goeduck]

It is a lot of work. Do you have haying equipment? Able to do your own basic veterinary treatments to your stock? Do you travel? If you travel, do you have a backup to feed and keep an eye out for the cattle? Can you haul to market or will you hire that? Will you cow/calf or buy calves? Will you put hay up? If so, do you have a dry storage area for the hay? ..
So many questions. Need more info.

 

[Roy Russell]

I have been trying for 4 years here in Texas - started out with 2 heifers and then added a bull a year later. I now have 9 cattle on the property - and as yet have not made a dime. Seems that you need a large herd with big acres to actuallymake $$ these days here in Texas. On the plus side - my family always has fresh organic raised chemical and hormone free beef to eat without paying store prices and wondering if it's the real deal on our plates. The property tax discount is also a help here in Texas when you produce and sell the extra beef to the public. And the cattle are fun to work with and nice to see out the window when you sit and eat a meal with the family.

 

[RNeumann]

A lot of folks do it for tax purposes around me. I guess you can call that a hobby. Like horses or wine I guess. If it was an easy way to make a few bucks everyone would do it.
Tell us what you “have” so far. Fenced pasture or acreage? Or were you planning to bring feed in year round? Dairy or meat or just breeding etc....

 

[oosik]

If you are looking for a great way to declare business losses on your taxes............

Substantial to tremendous initial investment - marginal returns to great losses with time.

One advantage - to be born into cattle. The weight of the Albatross is significantly less.

To even hope for success your time must be devoted to the cattle business - 24/7/365.

This from watching my neighbor who is third generation cattle rancher.

I have observed him and his methods for 37+ years

 

[Alan W.]

If your plan is to just raise and sell at the stock yards then profits will be slim at best for a small operation.
My friend started like you are wanting to but he sells direct to people at a premium. They want grass fed hormone free beef.
He hauls to the processor then his customers pick up their half or whole beef there. Word of mouth has been his only advertising. He buys all his hay as he doesnt have enough land for grazing and hay production.
He would give potential customers some hamburger or steak to try. He said that was the best way to seal a deal.

 

[3Ts]

I was going to do the same thing as you so I took a course in cattle raising and management. One of the things they emphasized was that to be successful, you first had to be a grass farmer. Management of your pasture is very important and that a cow averages about 35 pounds of hay a day depending on her condition and the weather.

 

[LouNY]

As all the above have said, plus
if grass fed the quality of your graze and hay is extremely important.
Crap feed equals crap beef.
Plus adequate and close fresh water.

 

[EddieWalker]

Once I get my fencing done and my pastures into decent shape, I plan on having a couple of steers on my place to raise for our personal consumption and sell what we don't eat to friends to cover expenses. We are currently doing this with two different friends as the buyer of what they sell us, but both of them combined do not have enough extra to last us a full year. We can tell the difference in taste, and the cost per pound is half of what we pay for meat at the store. They are good friends and helping us learn about it as they learn as they go with the hope that we can do this sooner, rather then later.

We also have pygmy goats and they sell quickly, but we don't sell for top dollar like others out there. Hundred bucks each seems to be more then fair. Currently we are at 9 nannies and no billies. We've learned that as soon as they are all pregnant, the billy has to find a new home. Goats are small and easy to handle. They are easy to feed since they eat just about everything and they do a great job of cleaning up the under story in our woods. I think about 20 goats will give us $3,000 a year gross and hopefully come close to paying for feed for the goats and the steers.

Our goal is to be less reliant on the grocery store and able to eat food that is more healthy for us.

My wife had cancer last year at age 53, with no family history of cancer, and it was a good motivator for us to put more effort into what we eat. A lot of research has shown that processed foods can lead to cancer.

 

[widefat]

We've learned that as soon as they are all pregnant, the billy has to find a new home.

Why is that? Know nothing about goats - just curious.

 

[M5farms]

there is profit to be made although the margins are slim. working with older equipment , not hiring anything out, working a very well paying day job and never being gone more than 3 days in a row are things you have to do. majority of people do not do it for the money . it is in you blood and it is a a personnel satisfaction endeavor , I grew up in it and didn't start my on my own until I was in my 30's after i realized i was not happy off the farm . I can count on 1 hand the vacations I have taken over the last 20+ years and I have no regrets. I started with a dozen and some years I run up to 50+ head others I sell down to 25+ head. They pay for themselves and I invest everything back into the operation. That is why I have been able to buy more equipment and continue to build. Being able to do EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING will save you major bucks as long as it is done right. Rebuilding and engine , puts seals in a gear box , weld a broken spindle , build fence, vaccinate and worm , pull a calf, kill a downer , spray and cultivate, fix a well, castrate or band, work 20hrs a day during hay season , build a barn and the list goes on and on .

 

[EddieWalker]

Why is that? Know nothing about goats - just curious.

Because he will mount all of them again as soon as they give birth, and then mount his daughters as soon as they can walk. A billy is only good for one thing, and when he's done his job, give him to somebody else and let the babies grow up. Keep the ones you want to add to your herd, sell the others, including all the males, and wait for the young ones to be big enough to breed, and do it all over again with a new male.

 

[kenmac]

As far as hay. I would have to buy. I have the grass but no haying equipment. Around here, large round bales go for $25.00-$30.00/ It would most likely cheaper to buy the hay than to invest in the equipment

I have 50 acres here that is fenced. Would just have to make a few repairs to some of the wire.

As far as the vet stuff. I would have to learn to perform the basic shots, worming, etc,.

Travel ? I really don't travel that much. At the most I would be gone would be two weeks. Most people I have talked to say that you could leave them for that long without any problems. I have no idea if this is true,or not as those around me have sons, Brothers, brothers in laws, etc, that can see after their cows when they are gone

I would do the cow /cave operation. Sell off the caves when they get to around the 600# mark is what I'm being told.

I have the means to get the cows to market, so that wouldn't be an issue



A guy I know that has about 150 head of cattle stated he has several cows slaughtered a year and all is good except the steaks. He said no matter what the does, or how he feeds, the steaks always come out tough.
He said he has tried different processors and the steaks are always tough. He said he thinks it's because processors aren't allowing the beef to hang in the cooler and age very long. He said the processors get them in , cut up and processed as fast as they can and won't let the beef hang and age.


I have contacted my insurance company, and they tell me I would have to get a farm /business insurance policy instead of the regular H O policy I now have. This other /different policy would increase my insurance cost

I'm just wondering at 60 yrs old and having no knowledge of cows, or the cow business, if I should jump in with both feet,or stay away from it.
I really don't care to put in hard work for no profit.


On another note. There is an older guy up the road from me that cuts hay, I asked him what he does with the hay ? He says, I sell it and make money.
So I ask, how much do you sell your round bales for ? ''He says $25.00-$30.00 per roll''
I say you pay the co-op to spray your hay fields, you have approx 100 K in hay equipment, your time, your fuel,etc.
I ask him, where is the money ? ''He looks at me puzzled and says, I guess you could say I do it for something to do''

 

[nybirdman]

To put it bluntly;find another hobby.We raised our own beef for 15-20 years.Loosing proposition all around.

 

[M5farms]

sure you could leave for 2 weeks and likely not have any issues , but One cow down and needing assistance and your gone you are 750 to 1200 dollars in the hole . or a tree falls and they are out in the road or on someone else property and you are 3 days into 2 weeks they are not going to be to pleased when you say I will be there in 11 days. buying hay is most economic for the vast majority but the 25 to 30 dollar roll cut late or full of weeds has no value except filler and you have to supplement . with no experience I would say dip your toe in the water and try to learn.

50 acres is plenty to run a dozen pair but to maximize productivity you would likely need to sub divide to be able to move animals into smaller fields and move to to a handling facility.

 

[japody]

I'll sell you mine.

 

[kenmac]

sure you could leave for 2 weeks and likely not have any issues , but One cow down and needing assistance and your gone you are 750 to 1200 dollars in the hole . or a tree falls and they are out in the road or on someone else property and you are 3 days into 2 weeks they are not going to be to pleased when you say I will be there in 11 days. buying hay is most economic for the vast majority but the 25 to 30 dollar roll cut late or full of weeds has no value except filler and you have to supplement . with no experience I would say dip your toe in the water and try to learn.

50 acres is plenty to run a dozen pair but to maximize productivity you would likely need to sub divide to be able to move animals into smaller fields and move to to a handling facility.

I don't know about the hay being full of weeds. They have their hay fields sprayed and fertilized.

I know some buy minerals, and some grain for their cows.

I have been trying to dip my toe in and learn. The Problem is, they all say, there's no money in cows, don't get in.

Maybe I'm too ignorant to understand why they continue in the cow business with no money to be made.

Was discussing the topic with my vet the other day. He stated if you have to call in a vet for any birthing, or medical issues. It can get expensive real quick.

I think eddie mentioned goats. That would probably require me to re fence. I doubt goats would stay in barbed wire installed to contain horses, or cows.

Maybe it would be cheaper to just let the place go back to woods, and I wouldn't have to spend 7-8 hrs to cut the grass in spring and summer

 

[kcflhrc]

Don't know anything about the cattle business. However, my wife wanted chickens, they have become my chickens. They are a pain in the @ss so I'm sure cattle would be worse.

 

[jaxs]

I was born on a farm and cattle ranch,still have several family and friends in the business. To answer your question with one word,FORGETABOUTIT. Look at it like this. If a 60 year old with no experience asked if they should open a business in the same profession you make your living ,what would you say?

 

[M5farms]

I don't know about the hay being full of weeds. They have their hay fields sprayed and fertilized.

I know some buy minerals, and some grain for their cows.

I have been trying to dip my toe in and learn. The Problem is, they all say, there's no money in cows, don't get in.

Maybe I'm too ignorant to understand why they continue in the cow business with no money to be made.

Was discussing the topic with my vet the other day. He stated if you have to call in a vet for any birthing, or medical issues. It can get expensive real quick.

I think eddie mentioned goats. That would probably require me to re fence. I doubt goats would stay in barbed wire installed to contain horses, or cows.

Maybe it would be cheaper to just let the place go back to woods, and I wouldn't have to spend 7-8 hrs to cut the grass in spring and summer

im just being realistic, It is very rewarding and a price can not be put on that. back in 14 prices were historic , everyone thought it would last forever and folks started dropping 2000 to 2500 for bred heifers . the next year those cows were could be bought for 1500 . in 14 cull prices were 1000 to 1200 per cow right now I am seeing some as low as 300 for the same kind of cow.

Alot of cows you see standing in fields are two expensive to sell because of the what I just described It could take 5 or 6 years of calves just to break even on them. With that being said a fellow can buy in pretty cheap right now and make a profit just off gain on older cows if he has the feed and facilities to do it. My situation is similar right now although all of mine have paid for themselves outright I am not going to give them away but if the market were somewhat up i would sell everything because it will take at least a year to fix all the fences from hurricane Michael. I have plenty of hay so i will feed until spring and hope things improve. Spray and fertilizer is a vital part of making good hay but even the best looking hay can have low protein because the vast majority of hay producers want quantity over quality.