Surveyor question?

[Fuddy1952]

Curious if others have this experience when buying property. It has to be surveyed, plat drawn, submitted for approval then recorded.
The problem is with the surveyors.
To me common sense would be the buyer and seller meet on site with surveyor who should have a bundle of sticks, plastic posts, etc. Then walk it off with a preliminary marking which could be "tweaked" a few feet if necessary.
I've had to have them out about five times, each time discovering a major goof. You can't fence up and over bolders, etc. Land has to make sense to use it. One spot I discovered dips down one end over an embankment, impossible to fence.
Each time costs $, time, resubmitted. Now they use GPS equipment which is great, but stick markers to me to start would be so simple to at least visualize boundaries, satisfy buyer and seller, then do the accurate plat and set iron marker pins.

 

[bcp]

Is this a division of a larger property, that needs new boundaries, and could be divided more conveniently, or are you marking the pre-existing boundaries of a property?

Thanks for a clarification.

Bruce

 

[denchen]

Its good to see you guys over the pond have the same problems we`ve had for years. A guy selling a field after he has measured it, always has a bigger field than the guy who is buying it after he has measured it.

 

[newbury]

Curious if others have this experience when buying property. It has to be surveyed, plat drawn, submitted for approval then recorded.
The problem is with the surveyors.
To me common sense would be the buyer and seller meet on site with surveyor who should have a bundle of sticks, plastic posts, etc. Then walk it off with a preliminary marking which could be "tweaked" a few feet if necessary.
I've had to have them out about five times, each time discovering a major goof. You can't fence up and over bolders, etc. Land has to make sense to use it. One spot I discovered dips down one end over an embankment, impossible to fence.
Each time costs $, time, resubmitted. Now they use GPS equipment which is great, but stick markers to me to start would be so simple to at least visualize boundaries, satisfy buyer and seller, then do the accurate plat and set iron marker pins.

IF YOU are subdividing land YOU, or the seller and buyer should mark it first BEFORE the surveyors come. "Land" doesn't make sense, it is just there. Divvy the land up as you see fit and the surveyors will mark it but how the heck do you expect them to know YOUR personal preferences?

I prefer nice straight easy to plot boundaries based on lat/long, versus weaving around every "bolder" and embankment. Even watercourses don't make sense because they change.
I met my wife during a litigation on property lines where the Tombigbee had cut off many acres due to oxbow changes.

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you are trying to get a parcel marked out from a larger acreage, then if the seller is ok with it, just walk and temp. mark where you would like the boundary then get the surveyor to map it to coordinates and file it.
If you are surveying a boundary line, then the line is what it is. If it goes across a boulder or down a steep grade, you cant do anything about that.
My SW corner property line is in the center of a creek that curves slightly. I couldn't possibly fence to the center of the creek and then run the fence in the creek so I just stay on the creek bank till I get past the curve then 90 degree turn to cross the creek and get back on the property line. I loose a couple hundred square feet of property but the land line is what it is. The brass pin set in concrete in the bottom of the creek bed is still the property line though.
When we had it surveyed, we gained over 100 feet on the SW corner but the line angled back to 0 at the NW corner of a 40 acre tract.

The surveyor said we may have trouble resetting the line if the adjacent property owner objected since the fence line had been set for several decades. However the owner said no problem, put your new fence on the real line. We lucked out on that a bit.

 

[Diggin It]

IF YOU are subdividing land YOU, or the seller and buyer should mark it first BEFORE the surveyors come. "Land" doesn't make sense, it is just there. Divvy the land up as you see fit and the surveyors will mark it but how the heck do you expect them to know YOUR personal preferences?

I prefer nice straight easy to plot boundaries based on lat/long, versus weaving around every "bolder" and embankment. Even watercourses don't make sense because they change.

If you are surveying a boundary line, then the line is what it is. If it goes across a boulder or down a steep grade, you cant do anything about that.
My SW corner property line is in the center of a creek that curves slightly. I couldn't possibly fence to the center of the creek and then run the fence in the creek so I just stay on the creek bank till I get past the curve then 90 degree turn to cross the creek and get back on the property line. I loose a couple hundred square feet of property but the land line is what it is.

OK. I thought it was just me misreading something.

Property lines are just that ... lines drawn on a map. Rocks, sinkholes, trees and so on aren't factors.

 

[aczlan]

Curious if others have this experience when buying property. It has to be surveyed, plat drawn, submitted for approval then recorded.
The problem is with the surveyors.
To me common sense would be the buyer and seller meet on site with surveyor who should have a bundle of sticks, plastic posts, etc. Then walk it off with a preliminary marking which could be "tweaked" a few feet if necessary.
I've had to have them out about five times, each time discovering a major goof. You can't fence up and over bolders, etc. Land has to make sense to use it. One spot I discovered dips down one end over an embankment, impossible to fence.
Each time costs $, time, resubmitted. Now they use GPS equipment which is great, but stick markers to me to start would be so simple to at least visualize boundaries, satisfy buyer and seller, then do the accurate plat and set iron marker pins.

When you have the surveyor come out, ask them to place stakes (or flags) every 50-100' on the line. That will let you see where the line is easily.

Aaron Z

 

[Fuddy1952]

It's land adjacent to what I've had for years.
It seems surveyors deal in two dimensions without consideration for how the new owner/purchaser can use it.
When meeting with surveyor, owner, and me we were in agreement. Then once marked and pins set it's different. Ten feet can make a world of difference especially over a long distance.
It just seems common sense surveyor should temporarily mark property before setting pins...they go about it backwards, at least with my experience.

 

[fried1765]

It's land adjacent to what I've had for years.
It seems surveyors deal in two dimensions without consideration for how the new owner/purchaser can use it.
When meeting with surveyor, owner, and me we were in agreement. Then once marked and pins set it's different. Ten feet can make a world of difference especially over a long distance.
It just seems common sense surveyor should temporarily mark property before setting pins...they go about it backwards, at least with my experience.

Surveyors do not attempt to accommodate either buyers or sellers.
They gather data that is on the ground, compare it with previously recorded data, and make a determination where the property line is/should be.
Then they set permanent markers..... if so requested.
There should be no such thing as "temporary" surveyor markers.
Perhaps you are interpreting surveyor traverse points as "temporary" markers. They are not!

 

[oosik]

Fuddy1952 - seems that there was a mistake in communication. What Fried1765 has said is the way its always been when I dealt with land.

 

[WranglerX]

Fence lines do not always designate property lines.... My 5 acres and adjacent five acres I am trying to buy, the fence lines are as much as 2 feet off property boundary (in some places) .... Surveyor was out, and we were able to identify the actual corner markers (in this case a length of 3/4 rebar driven into ground)....

In my case one fence line favors me as neighbors fence if about 1 foot onto their property.... On another side of property fence is about 6 inches over on property boundary on property I am trying to buy giving another neighbor a bit of extra space..... So be it, may depend on who surveyed ORIGINAL plots (platts) when land division first occurred, and how each neighbor first interpreted "fence lines"...

In case of one marker we could not find by visual search plot map stated it was 512 feet from corner marker.... Actually used GPS to go 512 feet down fence line, sure enough, metal detector located about 2 feet from where GPS located it but was buried under leaves....(GSP was cheap hand held, surveyors use very accurate GPS unit the are good to inches)....

You may have to go back to what is historically recorded to get accurate lines and corner locations....

IF 3 of 5 surveyors can not agree none of them are worth paying...

Dale

 

[Jstpssng]

If I am reading you correctly, you are buying a portion of your neighbor's land. If you know what you want to end up with, you and the seller should go out with a roll of ribbon and identify the area which you and he agree to transfer. The surveyor's job will be to traverse the perimeter of what needs to be transferred so that the deed can be written.
Please note; straight lines with as few corners as possible are advisable, as they will be a lot easier to identify and maintain now and in the future.

 

[aczlan]

It's land adjacent to what I've had for years.
It seems surveyors deal in two dimensions without consideration for how the new owner/purchaser can use it.
When meeting with surveyor, owner, and me we were in agreement. Then once marked and pins set it's different. Ten feet can make a world of difference especially over a long distance.
It just seems common sense surveyor should temporarily mark property before setting pins...they go about it backwards, at least with my experience.

Sounds like you met with the surveyor and the seller about dividing a piece of property, discussed where the corners should be and then the surveyor put them in, but you would have preferred that the line be in a little different spot to mke it more convenient to fence...
That is different than most surveys which are finding existing corners and marking the lines between them.

Aaron Z

 

[Fuddy1952]

All good points.
So many things if you haven't gone through it you don't know what to expect and hindsight is 20-20.
It may be helpful, my experience, if anyone is thinking of buying a parcel of land is to mark it off, string, tape, just plastic electric fence posts every 50ft or so.
Once it's yours just 10 ft. can make a world of difference.

 

[Beltzington]

Surveyors have plotted three of my properties in two different states, twice for Flood Plain determination for FEMA and twice for defining boundary's. Land surveying is not an exact science, markers or paperwork are damaged over time, Surveyors like most layman and professionals are only as good as their training, experience, equipment and work ethic. As has been mentioned the best solution is to have the concerned parties agree and mark their lines and hire a surveyor to plot them. Beyond that any disagreement will be settled with more surveys, arbitration or litigation.

Google Ft. Blunder

 

[PILOON]

Here in Quebec every time a property changes hands they demand a survey that is less than 10 years old.
That at $900. per.
Since I had purchased and sold within that 10 year period the surveyor simply asked if I changed anything and did not bother to visit, just sent the invoice.

I know of one person that surveyed some 6-7 times and claimed that he lost land at every turn.
His problem was that folks on both sides were all registered at the land office while his boundaries were not so they'd make up their shortcomings when needed.


His (the 6-7 times guy) land had been acquired under land grants (or pioneer settler type) of conditions and never formally registered hence his problem.

On the other hand some surveys were so badly done that 1/2 of some folks houses are occasionally legally on the neighbors property.

 

[Oldoak]

Surveyors do not attempt to accommodate either buyers or sellers.
They gather data that is on the ground, compare it with previously recorded data, and make a determination where the property line is/should be.
Then they set permanent markers..... if so requested.
There should be no such thing as "temporary" surveyor markers.
Perhaps you are interpreting surveyor traverse points as "temporary" markers. They are not!

I find surveyors will accommodate who ever is paying for their services.

Different land surveyors that I have ever dealt over the years will set permanent corner markers and/or at each turning point on irregular shaped properties. They will also set pins between those points at whatever intervals you would like, for an additional cost.

 

[John Fitzgerald]

You don't need a survey here to convey property, only a legal description. BUT, I would not buy without a fairly recent and recorded survey, say less than 20 years old, with markers in place.

 

[ultrarunner]

Fences here are anything but property lines...

It is something many have a hard time with...

If I own the land... I can put the fence on my land to suit me... this does not mean I give up land outside my fence...

What I find annoying is the city will issue citations to property owners for land the city owns... I kid you not!

Apologize to those that have heard this before... my then 100 old widow neighbor received a 72 hour notice for an momently hazardous tree... she live alone and does not get out much...

I went and looked and said the tree is on city property and called it in... got nowhere other than being told the city does not make mistakes...

Called a friend surveyor... told him the situation and he was in the area... stopped at no charge called the head person at the city and said this is city property... I am here now.

The irony is the city was trying to have a woman on social security pay for the removal of a city tree and when it was clear the tree was city... it took several months to be addressed.

Moral is know your boundaries because no one else will and some markers will be set back due to obstacles...

 

[yomax4]

Here, This will add to the confusion. I bought a split off acreage from a farmstead. The surveyor GPS'd all the waypoints ( 15 or more ) put in posts and ribbons. Weeks later a Geocache friend came by with his hopped up GPS and put in all of the coordinates. All but the 1st one were wrong by a 3-5' margin. So, Who's GPS is accurate. This guy does Geocache all over the world. That being said, Another surveyor I talked to about another property I own told me that their unwritten rule is whomever calls the surveyor to come out gets the benefit of the doubt on property lines. Nuts..