Front end goes out again!!!

[HarryVanderpool]

What is the load rating for the front axle (including bucket) for the tractor in question?
How much weight was being lifted?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

It's my uneducated belief that all tractors regardless of size category use factory equipped FELs that are capacity matched to the tractor. If that assumption is correct YOUR larger tractor is just as likely to suffer front axle failure when the FEL is used to it's capacity as the OP's much smaller CUT tractor. Am I missing something?

1. Loaders are NOT always matched to a particular tractor. Many times there's several loaders that will fit one model of tractor. There were at least three, that would fit my tractor, I chose the one that I wanted.

2. I DO agree on your second part... I've seen more than a few farm tractors with busted front ends. I myself shelled out a ring/pinion on a
farm tractor... Abuse the tractor with a loader and you WILL be fixing it! Thing is, a FARM tractor will take more abuse longer...

I had sold my dozer long before and was using my FARM loader tractor to clear some land, dig out some stumps and move them. The tractor took it for quite a while, but one day it had enough abuse and BANG!

I took it apart and with the ring/pinion in my hand, off to my FARM TRACTOR dealer I go. The owner was an older guy that been in business a LONG time and pretty much seen it all. He took a look at what I had in my hand and said "so you been using your tractor for a dozer, have you?". He nailed it, spot on and that was the day I started looking for another dozer!!

BTW, he got me the parts and I did all the labor, including setting up the new R/P, it ended up costing me a bit over one thousand dollars!

I DO NOT use my loader tractor for a dozer, I would NOT load the bucket full of rocks and drive any distance with them and when you see me post picts. like this,

You NEVER see me brag about how far I drove with it, because I don't do it!

SR

 

[sd455dan]

my 2 cents
as the OP said this is the 4th time a front axle failure has happened
Sounds like the small outer pinion gear may be undersized on this tractor
if all the failures were at the outer knuckle.

Weight in the bucket and lack of rear 3 point ballast is almost certainly a factor- But from the description of the failure, It sure sounds more like the torque rating of the actual gear pair is the root cause to me. possibly undersized for even a SCUT. Would be interesting to see exactly what parts are broken and a comparison to some other scut's same function parts.
Another thing- just hand loading a bucket to not over the hydraulics factory lifting ability and transporting is not what would appear to be abuse.
It is also possible I misread or understood post 1's description pictures might help.

 

[4570Man]

1. Loaders are NOT always matched to a particular tractor. Many times there's several loaders that will fit one model of tractor. There were at least three, that would fit my tractor, I chose the one that I wanted.

2. I DO agree on your second part... I've seen more than a few farm tractors with busted front ends. I myself shelled out a ring/pinion on a
farm tractor... Abuse the tractor with a loader and you WILL be fixing it! Thing is, a FARM tractor will take more abuse longer...

I had sold my dozer long before and was using my FARM loader tractor to clear some land, dig out some stumps and move them. The tractor took it for quite a while, but one day it had enough abuse and BANG!

I took it apart and with the ring/pinion in my hand, off to my FARM TRACTOR dealer I go. The owner was an older guy that been in business a LONG time and pretty much seen it all. He took a look at what I had in my hand and said "so you been using your tractor for a dozer, have you?". He nailed it, spot on and that was the day I started looking for another dozer!!

BTW, he got me the parts and I did all the labor, including setting up the new R/P, it ended up costing me a bit over one thousand dollars!

I DO NOT use my loader tractor for a dozer, I would NOT load the bucket full of rocks and drive any distance with them and when you see me post picts. like this,

You NEVER see me brag about how far I drove with it, because I don't do it!

SR

Based on my experience a bucket of hand tossed rocks weighs than a bucket of wet dirt and definitely less than gravel. If I need to haul a load any distance I’m going to use my dump truck. If I’m got a lot to do I’m going to use the CTL but that’s not always an option. Any tractor that can’t stand up to using the loader that the engineers built for it is junk. Tractors aren’t dozers or excavators or industrial machines. Using them as such is likely going to break them. I think we can a agree that using the right tools for the job is the best.

 

[Phillip w]

I will say my father has a john deere 4100. He has had very minimal trouble out of his tractor. A fuel solinoid ans a couple of flat tire. He works that little tractor like a dog. The capacities of his little tractor are less than my mf 1531. His tractor "runs rings" around my tractor in nearly every catagory. The is also a fellow on here with a 1528 mf and he appears to be having trouble with his front axle. I'm convinced that it is a very poor design. With this particular design, there must be a miscaculation of muching the loader to the tractor by the engineers or something. The only other thing is the dealer mechanics are not setting it up right when they are rebuilding it. For what it is worth, i hate a piece of equipment that you have to baby all the tine like it is on its last leg. I also found a local fellow who owned a 1531. His front axle shelled. He had it repaired and then sold the tractor. I wish now i would have done what he did.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Can't bale with an L series? Lol

 

[dnw64]

Can't bale with an L series? Lol

That is not what was stated.

...Kubota didn't warr. it because THEY said he should have bought an "M" series, the "L's" weren't made for baling hay.

I say that you can bale with 1 ManPower and a Piece of String.Then again, if those are your resources maybe you should consider alternative storage methods.

 

[Oldpath05]

You have a Kubota, so let's use that brand for an example.

Why do you think Kubota makes a "M" series?? I mean they have "L's" with just as much hp as the small "M's"...SR

Marketing gimmick so they can sell more tractors, now I'll go back to my safe place after I get done using my tractor for skiddah, balling hey and booldozing.............

 

[HarryVanderpool]

What is the load rating for the front axle (including bucket) for the tractor in question?
How much weight was being lifted?

 

[Oldoak]

Tractors aren’t dozers or excavators or industrial machines. Using them as such is likely going to break them. I think we can a agree that using the right tools for the job is the best.

:thumbsup:

And that would apply to any size tractor from SCUTs to large commercial farm tractors. The only difference is the amount of force it takes to break them.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Let's stop and think about this a second.

A. Pretty heavy load of rock in the bucket

B. In 2wd it starts spinning. Well what does that tell you? Does it say the rear wheels are off the ground or extremely limited in their weight carrying ?

C. Engages 4wd . . So now all the weight and all the drive requirements are on the 2 front wheels.

D. Now this has happened multiple times where the front end transmission goes out?

E. If this were a hydraulic problem the pressure relief would have kicked off. And that didn't appear to happen that it was the hydraulics. So if the front wheels were sliding or moving and you shift it into 4wd, it would set gear teeth against gear teeth. Was the rear differential lock also depressed at the same time?

Normally I'm always in 4wd before I start lifting a heavy load.

You made a very good point. With the rear w spinning its an open and shut case. I have trashed jeep front axles and diffs by loading up the front axle then dropping into low range like a dummy shifting the entire weight I'm winching onto the front axle wheels cannot turn but engine can something has got to give. AxleHub you hit the nail on this one i believe these incidents were caused by operator error

 

[Phillip w]

You made a very good point. With the rear w spinning its an open and shut case. I have trashed jeep front axles and diffs by loading up the front axle then dropping into low range like a dummy shifting the entire weight I'm winching onto the front axle wheels cannot turn but engine can something has got to give. AxleHub you hit the nail on this one i believe these incidents were caused by operator error

If I can't toss a hand full of rocks in a loader and use 4 wheel drive, what h___ good is four wheel drive??? If the loader will list it, with today's relief valves, you can not be overloading things. If dealers , salvage yards are telling you there is a problem with this model, that's all there is to say. Open and shut case. What about the 3 times the front axle failed and no rocks were involved. What about the steering cylinder??? This particular has from end issues.that is open and shut case, admitted to by an agco dealer and 2 different ag salvage yards.

 

[bfloyd4445]

If I can't toss a hand full of rocks in a loader and use 4 wheel drive, what h___ good is four wheel drive??? If the loader will list it, with today's relief valves, you can not be overloading things. If dealers , salvage yards are telling you there is a problem with this model, that's all there is to say. Open and shut case. What about the 3 times the front axle failed and no rocks were involved. What about the steering cylinder??? This particular has from end issues.that is open and shut case, admitted to by an agco dealer and 2 different ag salvage yards.

You can but you have to have the weights balanced from front to back so the load is evenly distributed between both axles when you fill your loader. Its really very simple, as simple as a balance scale or beam. I searched the net and i found no documentation of this being a major issue. All brands and all system have failures but when one person has multiple failures when no one else has it indicates his methodology must be causing the issue. Its time you listened to the constructive help from multiple posters and analyzed the way you are using your tractor in order to ascertain your error then correct it. Add rear wheel weights and more weight in your ballast box and I'll bet the problem goes away. My wife is mean vicious and her new car has had the turn signal arm broken off twice and she has dented the steering wheel face which she blames on the dealer. She is like that with everything when she gets worked up she destroys and doesn't even realize she is doing it. I sincerely hope you are not like her.

Best wishes

 

[4570Man]

I doubt there’s a single compact tractor on earth with over 100 hours and a loader that hasn’t sea sawed over the front end a few times. That shouldn’t bust the front end.

 

[AxleHub]

I doubt there痴 a single compact tractor on earth with over 100 hours and a loader that hasn稚 sea sawed over the front end a few times. That shouldn稚 bust the front end.

But if you are in 2wd and your wheels are spinning and you pull the lever to engage 4wd while the rear wheels are till spinning. . . It will then.

 

[vvanders]

Yeah, given that the maximum load is governed by the relief valves it's poor engineering to not build a tractor to withstand that standard case.

I've also never seen mention of it in any user manual aside from stability, unlike how you see for backdragging with a loader.

 

[bfloyd4445]

But if you are in 2wd and your wheels are spinning and you pull the lever to engage 4wd while the rear wheels are till spinning. . . It will then.

:thumbsup:why is that so hard for people to understand<smile>.....the wheels are spinning cause all the weight is on the front axle then you slap it into gear with the engine reved somethings gonna give.

 

[bfloyd4445]

Yeah, given that the maximum load is governed by the relief valves it's poor engineering to not build a tractor to withstand that standard case.

I've also never seen mention of it in any user manual aside from stability, unlike how you see for backdragging with a loader.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful or sarcastic, but I also never seen listed in any of my new car owners manuals that driving into a brick wall may damage your new car. They cannot list everything. Most manuals have several pages of common sense stuff in the front put there for people without any.

 

[bfloyd4445]

I doubt there’s a single compact tractor on earth with over 100 hours and a loader that hasn’t sea sawed over the front end a few times. That shouldn’t bust the front end.

Yep, I agree. Everyone that uses a loader has felt the bounciness of the rear a time or two but i think most take that as a warning and adjust the load or proceed with extreme caution.
Don't you think so? Most learn from the experience

 

[vvanders]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful or sarcastic, but I also never seen listed in any of my new car owners manuals that driving into a brick wall may damage your new car. They cannot list everything. Most manuals have several pages of common sense stuff in the front put there for people without any.

I'd agree if I hadn't seen every manual talk about backdragging the loader in an extended position(even in our '81 Ford manual!). Both the Ford and Kubota manual talk about ballast but neither mention anything about blowing out a front end and honestly I think we'd see a few more threads on it if that were the case.

Built plenty of consumer stuff over the years and you *always* design for worst case because if you sell ~100k units even that 1/1000 means you've got 100 pissed off people kicking up threads like these which can have a huge impact on how people perceive what you're building.