Buying Advice Done with hydrostatics

[crazyal]

Here's the way i see it. Back when I was a kid some 50 years ago my father would take me to Sears where I would sit on the new riding mowers. I paid attention because it had just become my job to mow the lawn with an old push mower (does anyone remember the old ones where you had to wind up a crank on the top of the engine to wind up a spring to spin the engine fast enough to start?) so seeing the nice shiny new riding mowers made me dream. For $1000 you could get an 8hp geared tractor and $1600 moved you up to 12hp. Not much in the way of options, just bigger tires.

Now a low end tractor prices start at about twice that. If you think about it over the last 40 to 50 years most everything has more than doubled in price. While $2500 seams like a lot of money to me for a riding mower the fact is that it's actually about the same price once you figure in how much the average wage has gone up. But now people are too lazy to shift gears. So the engines (not rated the same) have gotten more powerful and most are real hydro (my last MTD was a variable speed like a hydro but with a reeves belt drive system). It only stands to reason that something needs to cheaper.

 

[buickanddeere]

this is the WHY....can you explain this. What could stress the transaxle more than torque or shock loads, and if the rpm is down, power is down, so ???
Cooling is easy to understand unless part throttle and heavy load is causing excessive heat to trans.

Have to increase torque and pressure to compensate for the lower rpms .

 

[HEC]

I still have a 2003 cub- cadet 1529 running well with a 19 HP Kawasaki, and hydro. The one thing I learn the hard way is lawn tractors with sealed hydro's don't pull anything. I burned up two prior to buying this one which now has 1600 hours on it and has never pushed or pulled anything but itself. It doesn't push snow, pull a lawn cart, roller, spreader, nothing, even though the owners manual said it can and implements are sold to fit it.

That is the only reason I believe it has lasted this long.

I believe you are 100% correct as a friend next door has a cub cadet also and never uses it for anything but mowing , with zero problems and loves it . Does yours have grease fittings on the spindles as I believe he said his does not , that would be a concern for me I guess , maybe sealed bearings are fine .

 

[flewism]

I believe you are 100% correct as a friend next door has a cub cadet also and never uses it for anything but mowing , with zero problems and loves it . Does yours have grease fittings on the spindles as I believe he said his does not , that would be a concern for me I guess , maybe sealed bearings are fine .

Yes mine has grease fittings on the spindles, front axles pivots and front wheels, but not on the tie rods ends. the only thing I've replaced on that thing other than basic maintenance is the starter.

 

[fitterski]

Have to increase torque and pressure to compensate for the lower rpms .

The engine is revving at a given speed, THIS is the only given and not a variable. The cited rationale would make sense if the 'cruise' was a true 'maintain rolling speed' control ...which it is not. On my machine at least 'cruise' just means to lock the forward pedal in the existing 'position' whatever speed that results in. I can't try this on my mower in its current deplorable state but what happens if you lock cruise at some lower rpm and then throttle up to full tilt? I would expect vehicle speed to increase because engine rpm is the only real control. Correct me if I'm wrong but at any vehicle speed all transmission torque (defined by resistance load at THAT speed only) is therefore proportionally reduced at any lower speed and nothing that I can see would seek to increase it.

 

[rScotty]

Here's the way i see it. Back when I was a kid some 50 years ago my father would take me to Sears where I would sit on the new riding mowers. I paid attention because it had just become my job to mow the lawn with an old push mower (does anyone remember the old ones where you had to wind up a crank on the top of the engine to wind up a spring to spin the engine fast enough to start?) so seeing the nice shiny new riding mowers made me dream. For $1000 you could get an 8hp geared tractor and $1600 moved you up to 12hp. Not much in the way of options, just bigger tires.

Wow, I just realized how old I am. It was also my job as a kid to mow the lawn. But to me, an "old push mower" didn't have a motor at all. It was literally operated by pushing it forward. The blades were configured as a horizonal reel. No motor, so the blades were driven by pushing it so that as the wheels traveled forward they also spun the blade.
rScotty

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Wow, I just realized how old I am. It was also my job as a kid to mow the lawn. But to me, an "old push mower" didn't have a motor at all. It was literally operated by pushing it forward. The blades were configured as a horizonal reel. No motor, so the blades were driven by pushing it so that as the wheels traveled forward they also spun the blade.
rScotty

Been there, done that...
Told my boys the other day i should get them a reel mower. They thought i said "real" mower, they were confused until i explained.

 

[rScotty]

Been there, done that...
Told my boys the other day i should get them a reel mower. They thought i said "real" mower, they were confused until i explained.

Come to think of it, I think there was a transitional mower. I vaguely recall "reel mowers" that had a rope pull start Briggs engine mounted on top of them. Not common, but there were a few here and there. I think they had a fanbelt that ran down to a pulley to turn the wheels. Or am I dreaming (again )?
rScotty

 

[k0ua]

Come to think of it, I think there was a transitional mower. I vaguely recall "reel mowers" that had a rope pull start Briggs engine mounted on top of them. Not common, but there were a few here and there. I think they had a fanbelt that ran down to a pulley to turn the wheels. Or am I dreaming (again )?
rScotty

No, I remember them too. Never saw many, but I have seen them. I am pretty sure.

 

[k0ua]

Aha!... yes they do exist!.

 

[LouNY]

Come to think of it, I think there was a transitional mower. I vaguely recall "reel mowers" that had a rope pull start Briggs engine mounted on top of them. Not common, but there were a few here and there. I think they had a fanbelt that ran down to a pulley to turn the wheels. Or am I dreaming (again )?
rScotty

Your not dreaming, I can still have nightmares of getting that thing of my grandfathers started and using it, self propelled with no clutch, tip it back on the rear rollers to stop the forward motion and then the wonderful grounding metal strap to short the plug to shut it off. The drive for the tires and the reel was the same belt as long as the engine ran the blades and tires turned.

I saw the video after I posted that's a much newer model then I one I remember, my grandfathers had the notched pulley to wrap the knotted rope around to pull start and no clutch, on heavy grasses had to hold down to let the tires spin to control the forward speed. But still nicer then the push reel mowers, that you have to shove hard to mow a few feet forward then pull back to get it clear of the standing grass and shove again till it stalled out of progress from the lack of horsepower (you) or traction from the tires to spin the reel and shear the grass.

 

[crazyal]

Wow, I just realized how old I am. It was also my job as a kid to mow the lawn. But to me, an "old push mower" didn't have a motor at all. It was literally operated by pushing it forward. The blades were configured as a horizonal reel. No motor, so the blades were driven by pushing it so that as the wheels traveled forward they also spun the blade.
rScotty

The still make those. My GF about 10 years ago bought one because she had a very small yard. She used it a few times before she realized how hard it was to push. When I was a kid we lived in a development and everyone had to show off how well off they were. That meant gas powered. One of the neighbors had a gas powered reel push mower. It did a nice job cutting the grass but my father felt that it wasn't suited for a kid to be using.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Come to think of it, I think there was a transitional mower. I vaguely recall "reel mowers" that had a rope pull start Briggs engine mounted on top of them. Not common, but there were a few here and there.
rScotty

They were fairly common around here... They were called Reo's around here and I still see the motors forsale at tractor shows...

We used to buy the motors and put them on bicycles, they were perfect for that use, because they had a gear reduction on the side.

SR

 

[fitterski]

Wow, I just realized how old I am. It was also my job as a kid to mow the lawn. But to me, an "old push mower" didn't have a motor at all. It was literally operated by pushing it forward. The blades were configured as a horizonal reel. No motor, so the blades were driven by pushing it so that as the wheels traveled forward they also spun the blade.
rScotty

When I was a kid we used to do the soccer field with those; 4 kids, a quarter field to each, a day's grueling work!

 

[fitterski]

[techinically resolved] Re: Done with hydrostatics

Here's part-A of my solution, I just bagged it for a grand, a little loose here and there but NOTHING is broken and everything works, has been working for 58 years and is good for another 58.



part-B , a new DR pto mower is 3 grand but a good used one is less than one. I have half a mind to build my own 8 foot push deck for it.

 

[rScotty]

Re: [techinically resolved] Re: Done with hydrostatics

Here's part-A of my solution, I just bagged it for a grand, a little loose here and there but NOTHING is broken and everything works, has been working for 58 years and is good for another 58.

View attachment 561659

part-B , a new DR pto mower is 3 grand but a good used one is less than one. I have half a mind to build my own 8 foot push deck for it.

Nice tractor. Which model is it? No shortage of power... In the 50/60/70s "Compact" meant small in size but with similar power to the larger tractors. They were built to go a long time. One of the largest differences I see relative to today's tractors is that the older ones were built to be more easily repairable. Feature wise, the older ones seem very similar to today's tractors with the exception of the transmission. Our 1958 JD has more and better convenience and comfort features than our modern tractors with the single exception of the transmission. Today's HST, shuttle, a powershifts beat those old collar-shifting tractors hands down for use on any job.
rScotty

 

[fitterski]

Re: [techinically resolved] Re: Done with hydrostatics

Nice tractor. Which model is it? No shortage of power... In the 50/60/70s "Compact" meant small in size but with similar power to the larger tractors. They were built to go a long time. One of the largest differences I see relative to today's tractors is that the older ones were built to be more easily repairable. Feature wise, the older ones seem very similar to today's tractors with the exception of the transmission. Our 1958 JD has more and better convenience and comfort features than our modern tractors with the single exception of the transmission. Today's HST, shuttle, a powershifts beat those old collar-shifting tractors hands down for use on any job.
rScotty

It's an IH-b275 diesel, around 40 hp & 4 cylinders. I had been casing a nice fergy 130 but the guy wouldn't budge on price. This one listed in the morning 200 some miles away but by noon I had it on the trailer (early bird and all that). My experience with ANYTHING newer is totally negative, hst's being only a small part of it. Actually until about a month ago i didn't really give a hoot about hst, I had bought one and thought no more of it ..until it dumped on me at only 300 hours. And THAT is going to be irrevocably the end of it, I mean not necessarily the end of that story but the end of hst's in _my_ yard. And then we could talk about the other gems that progress has brought us like the computer controlling my Tundra (anOTHER 'never again'), and all the similarly troublesome digital services on newer tractors too. This trusty little mule even has a mechanical starter switch, I mean WOW, to me THAT is what progress means I've been tinkering all my life both DIY and professionally plus I have a lot of pros in my circle of friends and the sentence is fairly unanimous: anything mechanical built after about 2000 is a royal PITA and a sure way to shed a lotta dough. For my money, and I understand that this does not reflect everyone's need or opinion so we should be talking 'options', the manufacturers will have to offer me different feature levels like

- nothing automatic
- critical mission fail-safe logic throughout
- no digital services
- no electrical services except an inertial starter in case I should lose the crank handle
- all of the above
- none of the above

My way would begin with a huge 3-position switch on the dashboard that says Digital-Services: OFF, Advisory-Only, Full-Authority and even that would get trashed when I opt for purely mechanical everything. There, enough rambling off-topic

 

[rScotty]

Re: [techinically resolved] Re: Done with hydrostatics

It's an IH-b275 diesel, around 40 hp & 4 cylinders. I had been casing a nice fergy 130 but the guy wouldn't budge on price. This one listed in the morning 200 some miles away but by noon I had it on the trailer (early bird and all that). My experience with ANYTHING newer is totally negative, hst's being only a small part of it. Actually until about a month ago i didn't really give a hoot about hst, I had bought one and thought no more of it ..until it dumped on me at only 300 hours. And THAT is going to be irrevocably the end of it, I mean not necessarily the end of that story but the end of hst's in _my_ yard. And then we could talk about the other gems that progress has brought us like the computer controlling my Tundra (anOTHER 'never again'), and all the similarly troublesome digital services on newer tractors too. This trusty little mule even has a mechanical starter switch, I mean WOW, to me THAT is what progress means I've been tinkering all my life both DIY and professionally plus I have a lot of pros in my circle of friends and the sentence is fairly unanimous: anything mechanical built after about 2000 is a royal PITA and a sure way to shed a lotta dough.
....SNIP....

Well, I agree with most of your rant. I too wish that we at least had the option of buying a new tractor with more manual controls and specifically a tractor that would continue to work in some manual mode if ALL the electronic gadgetry suddenly quit.

But in spite of our wishes, that's sure not going to happen. Luckily we do have the second best thing - which is that for the price of a new tractor we can buy an older one from the "golden age" of mechanical devices and have it gone through 100%, upgraded in any area that needs or wants it, and still save money. I don't know why doing that isn't more popular - maybe someday it will be. For a hobby it sure beats watching soap operas.

As for the HST. I'm sorry your riding lawn mower HST crapped out. But do you really think that the HST on a riding lawn mower is in any way comparable to the HST on a piece of industrial equipment? Anyone who understands mechanical things knows that's just not right.

rScotty

 

[ruffdog]

fitterski sure wouldn't like my Toolcat with all them electronics, A/C, heat, radio, traction control, lights, horn, back-up alarm, electric controlled hydraulics, etc....

The dealer gave me $15k for my 19yo Boomer and what I paid for the RTV 11 years ago. The hydro's do hold resale but you need more than $1k to get good ones.

 

[sd455dan]

When I was a kid we used to do the soccer field with those; 4 kids, a quarter field to each, a day's grueling work!

We still have one -although haven't used it in years.

Whenever one of the kids got to far out of line, out came that mower for a little (civil service) duty.:laughing: