Questions before I buy.

[steviep]

Think of trading in my JD 4300 toward a ck3510 or 4010. My question is what would I need installed hydraulics to operate a loader mounted grapple or snowplow. My jd has a 3rd valve.

 

[cphilip]

As far as I know just a kit that adds the function and hoses from the existing power beyond port.

Its likely similar to what you have on the JD.

Not a recommendation on vendor but here is an example... 3rd function auxiliary hydraulic kits for all brands of tractors and loaders

This kit is one of the nicer ones. Pricey but nice. Made by W R Long I believe.

 

[lostcreekranch]

I’ve installed the WR Long 3rd function kits on my New Holland TL100A and LS XR4155 HC. Also used same on my previous LS XR 4046HC. I can highly recommend them.

The 3rd function, on your John Deere, should add extra trade in value.

 

[cphilip]

Note that Michigan Iron just posted its kit on here. Its probably a very nice option. I was studying it a while back before it was out. Its price competitively with the W R Long one.

 

[xcgreene]

You really have 2 common options:

1: Third function kit (typically utilizes your tractors "power beyond" line. Bit of a buzzword the industry likes to use making this seem amazing. Just means this function gets its pressure from after the distribution block that services the loader)

2: Using rear remotes (often installed standard on tractors these days)



*Third Function Kit

Pros:
*Button right on loader joystick to actuate attachment
*Kit has everything in it you need. Don't have to find parts and piece together
*Great resale point

Cons:
*$900 for the kit. Installation is a bit more involved but certainly DIY.
*Valve is either open or closed, there is no feathering, so lots of quick clicks of the button.
*Not Proportional, you most likely will not be able to use this function and another loader function at the same time. Over at Everything attachments, they advertised their 3rd function kit saying "This is a full 3rd function kit allowing you to raise/lower, dump/curl, and open/close at the same time." This is a false statement for many tractors, depending on pump flowrates. Most tractors under 60hp will simply not be able to do this. Good people, and helpful, but misleading in their advertising.

I know MIE is working on a proportional kit, above and beyond there normal 3rd function kit aimed at solving this, I'm sure it will be more expensive but I think it would be worth calling MIE and asking about it. Perhaps Everything Attachments will do the same.


*Rear Remote

Pros:
*Cheap, Less than $300 buying your hoses and fittings from Discount hydraulic or similar
*Uses existing equipment, so certainly simpler.
*Depending on the tractors 3rd function, it may be able to feather.

Cons:
*Have to use the tractors remote stick to actuate attachment, not as convenient as button right on FEL joystick
*If you don't have remotes already, these will need to be installed, bumping up the cost to what a 3rd function kit would be.


I have 2 DK45se Hst tractors, one with Everything Attachments kit, and the other tractor utilizing the rear remotes. If anyone were looking for advice because they were a bit tight on money, I would recommend getting the rear remote set up first, Plan your hose order in such a way that if later on, should you save up more cash, you may be able to order a 3rd function kit without the lengthy hoses, reducing the kit cost.
If you are only using your grapple a couple hours a week, the rear remote option is just fine, especially with some simple modifications, like lengthening the remote engagement stick to reach up near the FEL stick. If someone uses their grapple a few hours every day, having that button on the joystick is a wonderful thing.

 

[VashonFarmer]

I needed to add rear remotes to my CT225 Bobcat and also planned on a grapple. Would have been big bucks to do both at the same time so just ran the lines forward. I don’t use it every day and find the remote set up works well enough that I don’t have plans to add the 3rd function.

 

[N2DFire]

Think of trading in my JD 4300 toward a ck3510 or 4010. My question is what would I need installed hydraulics to operate a loader mounted grapple or snowplow. My jd has a 3rd valve.

What you *need* will depend on how you want it to operate.

There are actually 3 options

Option1 & the cheapest being a set of long hoses to one of the Rear Remotes, the down side is it won't be the easiest to operate since you have to mive between the loader conrtrol and the Rear SCV control.

Option 2 and mid range on expense is a Diverter Valve.
Think of this as an Electronically controlled A/B switch. It get's installed between the loader valve & the cylinders the valve controls (typically the Curl/Dump function). Then you have a single On/Off push button on the loader knob. When the button is Off - the curl/dump function works like normal. When the button is On (Pressed) & the loader control is moved in the Curl/Dump directions, the diverter sends fluid to (in this case) the grapple lid to open and close instead.

A PRO to this is that you have proportional control of the operation and are able to gently feather the controls.
The CON is that you have to pick Curl/Dump OR Open/Close, which means at some point your desired set of actions will require you to press the button, move the stick one way, center the stick, let off the button, move the stick the other way. Folks who have this set-up say that with a little time it becomes second nature and they like having the ability to feather the 3rd function

Option 3 is the most expensive and that is a "true" 3rd function.
In this case you have 2 buttons on the loader control that operate a separate solenoid valve which controls the Open & Close function of the grapple independently of the loader valve.
The catch & the reason I put True in quotes, is that it will only be able to supply the fluid from system that is NOT already being used by the loader valve. What that means in English is that even though it's a separate valve / function it will most likely not operate in tandem with either the Lift/Lower or Dump/Curl functions in operation (unless you are feathering them very very lightly).

The PRO here is a slightly simpler control set to learn and the ability to come close to getting true 3rd function operation **
The CON is these valves are simple On/Off valves so you have no ability to feather other than just making quick "blips" on the control button.

I've run our grapple like that for quite some time and honestly I haven't seen a single issue with not having the ability to feather, but I don't grapple eggs and glass either.


** Michigan Iron & Equipment has recently released a new 3rd function kit that is plumbed / ported in such a fashion as to allow true 3rd function operation. They offer both a simple Off/On like the other 3rd function solenoid version (but with true independent operation) or a Proportional Version that allows feathering like a Diverter set-up. miemachinerydivision
The PRO (obviously) is these allow true independent operation of the 3rd function regardless of what the loader valve is doing.
The CON is cost. As of right now it's $1195 for On/Of and $1495 for Proportional

There are several great kits on the market from forums supporters like MIE and EverythingAttachments, MtnViewRanch (Fit Rite Hydraulics - fitritehydraulics.com) and Kens Bolt On Hooks (Ken's Bolt on Grab Hooks <<Hydraulics>>) to name a few.

You also have the option to build your own. Several folks here (myself included) have done that. I have attached the write-up I did for our CK35 if you're interested.

Regardless of what you pick, there are lots of folks here that can help you out if you get stuck along the way.

 

[xcgreene]

That's a great write up, Nd2Fire

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Kioti's joystick valve isn't piloted so you will not be able to smoothly do two functions are once with the loader. The function of least resistenance will always move first, then the second, then the third. If not moving the loader, then the 3rd function will get all the hydraulics, but if moving the loader, then other functions will be compromised.

All to say that a tractor loader will not be as smooth as a skid loader.

So then adding a 3rd function is adding a 3rd hydraulic circuit to the existing two functions of the loader which are the loader and curl.

 

[xcgreene]

This may assist in visualizing a 3rd function as well.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

This may assist in visualizing a 3rd function as well.

View attachment 545347

What this photo is shows is that on an open center* hydraulic system hydraulic pressure (P for pressure or power) flows throught the valve if not divered to run the lift or curl functions of the loader. Flowing out of the loader valve, a double-acting divertor valve is installed inline on the hose between the three point valve and the loader valve. This divertor valve is also open center (meaning that when at rest, it too allows hydraulic P to flow straight through. You'll use a DO3 open center subplate, and a double-acting electric over hydraulic divertor valve to provide your tractor's loader with a third function.

Your base third function diagram looks like this:

Unless you buy a kit, when ordering a DO3 valve, you want is hydraulic diagram of the valve to match what I've drawn in the diagram above (open center, work ports A and B blocked in neutral).

The valve is mounted to a subplate. The subplate has four hydraulic ports: P for fluid coming in, T (tank) for fluid going out (which gets tapped into the three point's inlet), and A and B for doing work. You'll want a DO3 subplate as well. Here is the very subplate you'd need, a SFP 10101 DO3.

On my tractor, I mounted my subplate atop my transmission out of harms way. I used LED DIN connectors so that when power was applied, I'd have a tell-tail light to help determin faults if the third function failed. Power to activate the double-acting valve come from solid state relays (for low failure rates) wired directly to the battery. Control power came off of a piggy-back plug on the radio at the fusebox which I fused to 5 amps and that ran through the switches on the joystick and then to the control side of the relays.

Hoses where all custom sized using my local hydaulic jobber to crimp them up. I made a total of three mounting plates and included a quick disconnect for removing the loader while keeping the third function's hard lines of the loader.

* Closed center is like the water system in your house: always under pressure and fluid does not move till the valve is opened. Open center is like a spray pump where the water goes round and round the system till it is needed, then diverted off in another direction by a valve.

 

[xcgreene]

For anyone curious, the drawing I posted is from the WR Long 3rd funtion kit.

 

[steviep]

I went to the dealer today and he pointed that the tractor has 2 sets of remotes that they run to the front.

 

[steviep]

New question does the 3510 have a block heater if not how hard is it to install

 

[Mike Gibson]

New question does the 3510 have a block heater if not how hard is it to install

When I bought my 3510 in December I wanted a block heater but the dealer said they didn't install them as they were having issue with the factory heaters. So it's something to ask your dealer about.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

When I bought my 3510 in December I wanted a block heater but the dealer said they didn't install them as they were having issue with the factory heaters. So it's something to ask your dealer about.

Issues? What issues? It is a sleeve and and screw-in heater.

 

[steviep]

Spoke with the dealer today and he said they don't usually put in a block heater, most guys install one in the bottom hose.

 

[xcgreene]

I know a lot of guys have had good luck with wolverine pad heaters. I have been considering them, or a magnetic heater for a while now.

 

[oosik]

I had the WR Long third function installed on my Kubota - along with the Land Pride SGC1560 grapple. Its a very nice system and tough as an OX. The FEL joy stick is replaced with a unit produced by WR Long with a toggle switch to activate the grapple's open/close function.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

People: pop a frost plug out, install a sleeve using form in place gasket sealer, and screw in a block heater with teflon tap to seal it.

The only caution is when removing the frost plug do not drill or punch into the cylinder wall.