How much wood

[arrow]

What is displayed in this pic is 5 days worth of wood burning 24/7 with an "air tube" wood stove placed in the basement heating about 1800 sq ft.. This is with temps 18*-40* and is mostly red oak. Just with wood, I can keep the house between 65*-68*.

I am thinking about getting a gassifier wood furnace mainly for its ability to extract as much heat energy out of the wood as possible. This would be at least an 8K further investment as I would also have to mount ducting in the cellar.
Right now I do not know if it's worth it. I do not buy my wood but harvest all of it myself. I may burn wood for another 10 years. If a gassifier would not save at least a cord to two cords per year, then I don't think it would be worth it. Just wanting to hear what amounts folks are burning with this type of wood burning gassfier. Right now using around 5 - 5 1/2 cords yearly.

 

[RNeumann]

Well let’s see- $8000 to save 2 cords (max) a year for 10 years. That’s 20 cords of wood for $8000!!!!!
I’d save my money and effort and blow an extra 6-12” of insulation in the attic- 75-80% of heat loss in a typical home is lost through the ceiling. Just my SWAG

 

[BLSXJ]

I agree with Neumann, 8k to save maybe 20 cords. that's valuing the cords at $400 each

and there will be no "added value" to your home with a 10 year old wood burner in it.

 

[CobyRupert]

Deleted

 

[arrow]

I guess I'm measuring in sweat equity. Don't know how I'll feel about wood gathering at 80. Not knowing anything about this type of burner was hoping someone would chime in and say something like " I saved half my wood gathering and am down to 2 and half cords to heat the whole place". I alway move toward wishful thinking first and then try to get educated secondly.

 

[Rustyiron]

Arrow even if buying a gasser works out to a break even situation in 10 years, your not going to move are you?
Added insulation and sealing out the wind along with better windows & doors if necessary will help you out regardless of the heating source that I'm assuming will eventually be elec., gas, or oil.:thumbsup:
Insulation, is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[LouNY]

One of my brothers has a wood gasifier boiler, he has had to rebuild it once and its coming up again in a couple of years.
He went the whole hog route when he installed his, a 1500 gallon water insulated reservoir in the basement with copper exchangers for in and out, he loads the burner once or twice a day and does a complete burn to heat the reservoir then uses that heat storage to heat the house. It does use less wood then the old outside boiler but not a lot less requires cleaning and tinkering.

 

[Rustyiron]

I guess I'm measuring in sweat equity. Don't know how I'll feel about wood gathering at 80. Not knowing anything about this type of burner was hoping someone would chime in and say something like " I saved half my wood gathering and am down to 2 and half cords to heat the whole place". I alway move toward wishful thinking first and then try to get educated secondly.

I'm heating with an indoor wood boiler (gasser). 40x64 shop with 16' ceilings & 3 12'x14' doors that leak around the edges along with our small attached house. The shop is 60* 24/7 all winter, (usually Dec. to March) & the house stays at shorts & tee shirt temps with about the same wood, 5 cords. It is radiant and that may make a difference over hot air.

 

[MossRoad]

It looks like you have 79-80 pieces of wood there. For 5 days, that's about 20 pieces a day.

We heat our house primarily with wood and the most I've ever burned was 6 cords one year. So I burn about 5 cords on average. Very similar to you. I burn about 36 pieces per day when its cold out, less when its 20-40. So I'm guessing we are about the same.

Heating with free firewood is a losing proposition if you put any value on your time at all. Add up how many hours it takes you to hunt, gather, cut, split, stack, un-stack, load, shovel ash, etc.... every year. Then multiply that by $10 per hour.

For me, it's 1 day to cut down all my trees for the year... 40-50 telephone-pole-sized locust trees.
Then it takes 1 day to haul them all out of the woods to the landing.
Then it takes me 4 days to cut it into 16" pieces and haul it home.
And another 4 days to split it.
So, about 10 days.
8 hours times 10 days = 80 hours.
80 hours at $10 per hour is $800.
Guess what? I save about $800 in heating bills each year by heating with wood.
Add in the cost of the wood stove, chimney pipe, any increase in insurance costs, etc...
Add up the cost of a chainsaw, chains, maintenance, fuel, tractor wear and tear, fuel, etc.. onto that as well, and you come up with no net gain by heating with firewood in most situations.

The main reasons I do it are because:
A. I have 20 acres of woods loaded with thousands of black locust trees (probably one of the best firewood's available). I want to clear out the locusts to promote the hundreds of sugar maples that are in there for maybe syrup production when I retire again, or lumber, or just a nice maple forest.
B. I like the excercise firewood production provides.
C. I like being outdoors.
D. I like the feel of the wood heat over the feel of the gas furnace. It just seems warmer and cozier.

But I have no illusions that it saves me any money when I put a value on my time.

As others have said, you'd be much better off putting more insulation into your house, sealing up the exterior, upgrading to energy efficient windows, converting to LED lightbulbs, etc...

 

[4570Man]

The LED light bulbs will save money because wood heat cost less than electric heat but that's not exactly helping the heating cause. I get enough sawmill reject logs to heat my house. That cuts the time for firewood to probably 3 hours a cord to cut and split. Following LD1s logic ( and I didn't say he's wrong) burnt in my high efficiency stove oak firewood makes twice as much heat as its market value in nature gas so I'm still saving money by heating with wood.

 

[Rustyiron]

Heating with free firewood is a losing proposition if you put any value on your time at all. Add up how many hours it takes you to hunt, gather, cut, split, stack, un-stack, load, shovel ash, etc.... every year. Then multiply that by $10 per hour.

:laughing: And then there's the $50k of toys.............. but it's just what we do, and enjoy:thumbsup:

 

[MossRoad]

:laughing: And then there's the $50k of toys.............. but it's just what we do, and enjoy:thumbsup:

Well of course! :laughing:

 

[arrow]

I think the time/money thing comes into effect if you had a job and you could make more money doing it instead of gathering fire wood. I have a part time salaried position now and have always had some type of job while gathering home wood. As Moss points out, there are intrinsic values to doing this that cannot be measured in dollars but none the less, I've saved a substantial amount burning wood over purchasing oil. At least enough for the expenditure of two tractors that I needed anyway. If I were just starting out and had to buy firewood which around here goes for $250 a seasoned cord, that would make things different.

I probably worded my initial post incorrectly and perhaps should not have put a dollar value associated with an acquisition such as this. Definitely my fault. I should have simply asked if a gassier type wood furnace saves on the amount of wood burnt over a normal efficient wood stove as what I'm really trying to do is cut down the amount of cords needed.

I agree with the insulation parts people offered. Fell into the romanticism of the log home 40 years ago and the way they designed these things then is an assault to energy savings at every juncture. There is simply no viable way to add more insulation to any part of this structure without a tremendous outlay to correct what's wrong.

What I love about throwing thought processes out to you guys, is everything I read starts to open "mind doors" even if a contribution is off path a bit. I'm 70. Still physically fit (with back issues however) and I think the direction I should be moving toward is identifying what is available in new tech for oil burners. Spending money on that will probably have more meaning.

I think back to Grand Pappies house. He had a coal shute. I guess that was the "oil tank" in them days.

 

[MossRoad]

As you get older, the thought of cutting, splitting, hauling, etc... firewood does not appeal to many folks. On the other hand, some of us are nuts! We like the physical aspect of it.

So my thought process is a few things. Does it make economical sense? Do I have the time to do it? Do I have the strength to do it? Should I gain the strength to do it? Firewood is a dirty fuel, as in, it brings dirt into the house. Do I want to sweep every time I load the stove? Do I even want a wood burner in my house? I like the look of the flames, but would a hot water system located in the garage or a shed be more efficient and keep dust and dirt out of the house? Lots to think about.

If we ever build a new house, I'm probably going to heat it with radiant floor heat. So I can heat that fluid several ways... gas, wood, electric, etc.... it's probably one of the more adaptable ways to heat a house, and easier to do multi-fuel with. It doesn't spread dust around. But it doesn't circulate the air or cool the house, either. Lots to think about.

 

[TheMan419]

As you get older, the thought of cutting, splitting, hauling, etc... firewood does not appeal to many folks. On the other hand, some of us are nuts! We like the physical aspect of it.

So my thought process is a few things. Does it make economical sense? Do I have the time to do it? Do I have the strength to do it? Should I gain the strength to do it? Firewood is a dirty fuel, as in, it brings dirt into the house. Do I want to sweep every time I load the stove? Do I even want a wood burner in my house? I like the look of the flames, but would a hot water system located in the garage or a shed be more efficient and keep dust and dirt out of the house? Lots to think about.

If we ever build a new house, I'm probably going to heat it with radiant floor heat. So I can heat that fluid several ways... gas, wood, electric, etc.... it's probably one of the more adaptable ways to heat a house, and easier to do multi-fuel with. It doesn't spread dust around. But it doesn't circulate the air or cool the house, either. Lots to think about.

We have a boiler (nat gas fed) in the house we bought 2.5 years ago. The house we sold had a traditional furnace. I like the boiler heat better. Like you said about the wood heat, it just feels different. I had not thought about the fact it does not blow dust around.

Of course my system is not set up to be multi fuel but certainly easily could be. Would still need electric to run the pumps that circulate the hot water.

 

[MossRoad]

Yep on the circulation pump(s). Fortunately, they use very little electricity, compared to a furnace fan blower.

 

[Rustyiron]

I should have simply asked if a gassier type wood furnace saves on the amount of wood burnt over a normal efficient wood stove as what I'm really trying to do is cut down the amount of cords needed.

Having no experience with a wood furnace, gassification or not, I would start with the several manufacturers efficiency claims and or testing. I jumped from an old wood stove right into a gasser boiler but have read many users reports comparing their old OWB to their new (epa required) gasser saving up to half the wood.
If you are distributing your heat via normal forced air (ductwork) type system I don't think it's overly complicated or expensive to convert it to heating with a wood boiler, that is IF for some reason (that I can't imagine) equal efficiencies can not be had. You'll need an air handler with a coil, that also makes a/c an option if you want it.
Here is a good place to talk about it. Hearth.com Forums Home

 

[goeduck]

The whole wood burner connected to ductwork with alternate file backup seems (if that is what was suggested, not sure) seems complicated. If the reason is to create more even heat, mbetter insulation and selected small fans would do very well. My house is 3000+ sq ft on one level and does not vary more than about 2 or 3 degrees from one end to the other when on wood heat with a cat insert. The insert happens to be smack dab in the middle however.

 

[BrokenTrack]

What is displayed in this pic is 5 days worth of wood burning 24/7 with an "air tube" wood stove placed in the basement heating about 1800 sq ft.. This is with temps 18*-40* and is mostly red oak. Just with wood, I can keep the house between 65*-68*.

I am thinking about getting a gassifier wood furnace mainly for its ability to extract as much heat energy out of the wood as possible. This would be at least an 8K further investment as I would also have to mount ducting in the cellar.
Right now I do not know if it's worth it. I do not buy my wood but harvest all of it myself. I may burn wood for another 10 years. If a gassifier would not save at least a cord to two cords per year, then I don't think it would be worth it. Just wanting to hear what amounts folks are burning with this type of wood burning gassfier. Right now using around 5 - 5 1/2 cords yearly.

I was in a very similar situation as you, my home being super efficient but using a propane boiler for a radiant heated home. I have hundreds of acres of forest, so I thought maybe wood would save me money over that of buying propane. I looked at gassifier indoor boilers, yet after the stove dealership and I crunched the numbers, even he concluded that the gassifier return on investment would not be good. In other words, I would be better off to just buy propane since by the time the gassifier was repaid in savings, it would be junk.

In my case, I found a used $700 boiler for sale and bought that instead. It is not as efficient as the gasifier, but the return on investment was a lot less too.

You seem to be in a very similar boat, except you already have wood heat so you do not need to buy anything. I would just keep what you have, and as others have said, get better windows or insulation maybe. My super-efficient home has come about because I visualize it turned upside down and filled with water. Any place water could run out, I worked at stopping up.

 

[arrow]

Having no experience with a wood furnace, gassification or not, I would start with the several manufacturers efficiency claims and or testing. I jumped from an old wood stove right into a gasser boiler but have read many users reports comparing their old OWB to their new (epa required) gasser saving up to half the wood.
If you are distributing your heat via normal forced air (ductwork) type system I don't think it's overly complicated or expensive to convert it to heating with a wood boiler, that is IF for some reason (that I can't imagine) equal efficiencies can not be had. You'll need an air handler with a coil, that also makes a/c an option if you want it.
Here is a good place to talk about it. Hearth.com Forums Home

Thanks Rusty. This made me look into gassier (stupid spell check) gassifier "boilers". My current boiler is as old as the house but it's still kicking. Haven't used it as much in 40years as if it were my sole heat source. It will be 6-8K simply to replace it with another oil fired one. Perhaps i should look into one of those combo units that burn wood and/or oil such as the Wood Gun or Tarm.