Barn winch lift Design question

[blakester]

Hello everyone, have a couple questions about a winch lift i'm building. Ok first off ill describe the use and build. We have a small barn with a lofted area that we cant put any stairs up to due to space constraints. I want to put some things up top for storage, but much of it is too cumbersome or heavy to climb up a ladder with. I would say that the a heavy load would be 300 pounds, so not that much. I had a 3800 pound winch i wasn't using, so i Thought I would turn it into a lift to bring that stuff up and down. I built a small platform on wheels, 30"x27-1/2" out of 2x6. I ran 4 chains through a hole in the wood on each corner and double 1/4" x 2.5" lag bolted it to the underside. The winch is mounted on double 2x6s that span 5 of the 2x8 roof joists with 4 - 5/8" thick bolts that run through both 2x6's and have a nice wide thick washer on the back. Those 2x6's are lag bolted to the roof with 3 per joist. I pre drilled the roof joists, and slightly offset each lag to try to prevent splitting them. The roof is 40 years old and the wood has hardened since it was put in, and is in great shape. I have some pictures attached, the first try had the cross installed to try to keep the chains straight on the sides as high as possible. That image had me just slide it in there for reference, it was much higher before. I had them so high that they nearly went 90 deg to the hook. It was incredibly unstable and i think maybe i need more of the angle like in the image without the cross in it. That's question number one, what's the best way to keep those chains straight as much as possible. question 2 any one hazard a guess how much that setup would reasonable hold?

 

[CincyFlyer]

Using a winch as a hoist, zero pounds is the recommended amount.

 

[blakester]

Why is that? Are there some specific safety concerns about using a winch as a hoist?

 

[kirkawilson]

ATTIC LIFT HOW I MADE IT - YouTube

 

[hosspuller]

The platform is unstable because the center of gravity is too low. A rigid vertical member from the platform is required to keep it from tipping. Think of a crane manbasket

 

[Deere Dude]

I have a couple winches and to reverse or extend the cable, they free wheel. If yours works that way I would thing it would break up pretty fast unless the lift basket went down by hand. It would go up fine, but not down.

 

[aczlan]

Why is that? Are there some specific safety concerns about using a winch as a hoist?

Yes, a winch designed to be a hoist will have a automatic brake so that it can Freewheel and drop its load. The one that you have does not have an automatic brake on it or if it does it's a smaller one and so it is not recommended for use as a hoist.

The platform is unstable because the center of gravity is too low. A rigid vertical member from the platform is required to keep it from tipping. Think of a crane manbasket

Correct. Barring that, a spreader at the top so that the chains from the platform to the spreader are vertical would probably help.

Aaron Z

 

[blakester]

So the winch has a free wheel yes, I turn a locking mechanism to disable the free wheel. Is the fear is I may burn out that mechanism, being the automatic brake, and it would cause it to only free wheel. So the idea being the less weight on the line while the mechanism is enguaged the better? Additionally, the platform is much more stable when I have the cross braces removed. I understand he man lift idea, but isn稚 my platform essentially he top of the man lift where the cables connect? And further I知 not sure I get that the centre of gravity is too high if lifting the cross member would increase stability. That seems to be opposite of what I知 experiencing, the further I move he cross up the less stable the platform becomes. Thanks for the infor so far, really looking to get a good understanding of this

 

[blakester]

Ok so after some reading it looks like winch brakes are generally clutch style friction pads, so I can see why they would potentially burn up, plus they only seem to be rated for half the lift weight of he winch., which while way way way above my weight amounts, still puts me in the in-intended usage for the winch. How about he lag bolts on the 2x6 mounting. I do have a half ton chain hoist I could swap out for the electric winch.

 

[davedj1]

I have this in my shop and I use it all the time, it will lift way more than it's rated for but with a double line @880 # it should lift anything you want to.
44 lb. Electric Hoist with Remote Control

 

[s219]

I have this in my shop and I use it all the time, it will lift way more than it's rated for but with a double line @880 # it should lift anything you want to.
44 lb. Electric Hoist with Remote Control

I used one of those hoists in my garage for many years and it worked great. I had mounted it on a trolley that rolled on barn door tracks for a range of motion. Later when we moved, I took it down and gave it to my father and he's using it to lift a kayak on/off his car in his garage.

I agree with other posts that a winch is not good/safe for use in this type of application. So many issues. At a bare minimum, if I had to use a winch, I would be mounting a pulley (or pulleys) on the ceiling and putting the winch on a wall. Make sure the cable path is coming straight out of the winch. And be prepared to have no reliable control on the way down. You could trust it to raise stuff, but not lower stuff. Since proper overhead hoists are so cheap and available, I wouldn't even bother with a winch.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have two of those Harbor Freight winches... They ARE the way to go, as long as you don't over load them.

They sell three sizes now, and they aren't all that expensive...

SR

 

[blakester]

Ok, sounds like if I知 going to use it I should really lift only. Those hoists are fairly cheap so I might swap out my setup to be safe. How about the platform stability?

 

[BukitCase]

I can't answer on stability, sounds like there've already been good suggestions -

I do want to correct a previous post tho; those HF hoists are rated (by them) for double line operation ALREADY - so the 440 is MAXIMUM on the one previously posted.

They also offer hoists rated for 880,1100, 1300 and 2000 pounds, ALL are rated when using the included block hook and double line operation. Download ANY of their manuals on its product page and check the specifications.

Search results for: 'Electric Hoist'

Personally, and drawing on the last 34 years in heavy industry instrumentation before retirement, ANYTHING HF sells I automatically cut their ratings in HALF to see if they will do what I need. Even then, if their fairly short control cable doesn't allow me to stand somewhere that is NOT under the load, it gets extended... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Sorry, my old xp box-o-rocks locked up before I could finish that;

Are you SURE you can't put a staircase in your barn? I did (AFTER I'd converted it to a wood shop), and it's been great - stows completely out of the way, took 5 sheets of 3/4" shop grade plywood and an 1100 lb version of the HF hoist, little bit of welding -

That mezzanine is 1-1/4 T&G ply over 2x12's on 24" centers, stair header is DOUBLE 2x12.

Treads are 3/4 ply 10" x36", with a 4" wide stiffener under each; stringers are DOUBLE 3/4 ply "glue-lams", cleats under every tread, cleats are glued/screwed, all else is just pocket hole screws (lots of 'em). In the next to last pic, those little "divots" on the bottoms of the stringers sit firmly on those lower cross-bolts when the stairs are DOWN, so the upper pivot bolts don't take all the weight.

Staircase is solid with me (190 lbs) and anything I can carry up. Later I added some removable "runners" of plywood up both sides, stairs open in the middle, so I could load a hand truck at the bottom, then pull it up the stairs. A few pics (I have dozens more :=)

 

[blakester]

Actually something I just checked with my winch is it doesn稚 have to freewheel to spoil out, it reverses on the controller. I have to manually engage the freewheel. Would this be considered an automatic brake that痴 the clutch style?

 

[blakester]

I did think about a folding staircase as well, The issue for me is that the floor space is nearly always taken up by tall stuff, wine tanks 8 feet tall, stacked barrels that kind of thing. Inly taking up a small amount of floor space to get that stuff up is kind of ideal. I saw some pictures or people who used black iron to build the taller rigid cage, that seems like a healthy way to update the design

 

[BukitCase]

I have a 120 volt electric winch that is the same way, (only one HF offers) - it isn't recommended, but I wouldn't have a problem using it that way (partly because I'm seriously programmed NOT to EVER be UNDER anything that's movable ) -

On the rigid cage, yes that'd be the way to go. Just remember that unless the 4 uprights are BRACED, the lift will try to pull them all into the center. If I were to do that, I'd make 3 sides permanently braced and the fourth (loading gate) so it becomes a brace when pinned shut. And I would NOT use angle, square tube is MUCH stronger even with thinner steel.

Also, lag bolts - NOT..... it's not a good idea to use ANYTHING that can pull out of wood. Your plan of large heavy washers BEHIND thru bolts is the way to go, ANYWHERE... Steve

 

[crazyal]

Could you put a set of stair on the outside of the building? Are you handy and can you weld? If there's a place near a wall I would make a platform lift that rests on the lower floor. Instead of the weight being carried by the rafters above the second floor it would be on the floor joists on the main floor. Would be a little more work but I think it would give you something safer and more usable. With the weight you are talking about you could even put wheels on it so you can roll it across the floor so you could unload a pickup onto it, roll it over to the place where the access is to the second floor, have some feet come down so it can't roll, then lift the load up. Here's a video but I wouldn't recommend using it as a manlift.

 

[mroldstyle]

I use a similar winch #4500 lb UTV winch to lift an ATV up to park another underneath of it. Its a four post design like a car hoist, but the winch is the same type as yours. In button on the remote for up, out button for down. I wouldn't necessarily stand under it during operation but would, and have ridden it up and down numerous times. Its all cable, but your chain does the same thing. Personally looking at your photos, the weak parts I see are the quick link your using to hold the chain together( I've had them blow apart, but I tend to overload things), I would want slightly longer bolts on that winch, either lock nuts or at least a lock washer underneath the nut. It could be the pic but it doesn't look like its pulled up tight to the 2x. Also I would have your chain going through the 2x crosspiece underneath your platform not just the one outside piece of 2x. Lag bolting into the joist probably not ideal, chances are it would hold, but I would make up some steel straps to go under your 2x6 and up the side of your joist and through bolt them. Trying not to be the safety police, personally think your outfit would easily lift 500 pounds, but if your gonna use it 10 times a day every day it could be improved. Then I would use all steel construction. :twocents: