Tractors and wood! Show your pics

[s219]

I am not afraid of much but with a leaner of any size I call in a professional. I know of someone killed by a leaner barber chairing on him.

The "coos bay cut" is a good technique to deal with leaners or any tree that is under a load like that. Doesn't have to be leaning to barber-chair.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...23-skidding-logs-post2742136.html#post2742136

 

[4570Man]

I am not afraid of much but with a leaner of any size I call in a professional. I know of someone killed by a leaner barber chairing on him.

The leaners are definitely dangerous, the nearly upright ones are the worst IMO. His look pretty far down. Unless the tree is partially uprooted with the root ball still holding I'm not seeing the danger of it barber chairing. It looks like to me the tree is resting on the ground at one end and another tree at the other. Am I missing something?

 

[MossRoad]

I understand barber chairs fairly well on leaning trees.

I guess I should have clarified not exactly a leaner, but a tree that's hung up in another tree as it falls. So the tree starts to go, and for whatever reason (poor planning, odd twist, misjudgment of mass, pilot error, etc...) the tree falls into another tree and hangs mid-fall. What do you do?

I've had it happen twice in the last 6 years. What I did is probably dangerous, so I'd like a better solution. I ended up cutting a new notch on the top side of the tree, and doing a back cut from the underside, stopping to put a wedge in, then continuing. Basically, I'm felling the tree away from the lean. What happens is the tree buckles towards the hang, snaps the hinge, and drops straight down into the dirt. That decreases the angle of lean, but the tree is now 16" shorter and still hung. I've had to repeat this 5-6 times until the tree ends up vertical in the hang. The last cut section makes it fall away from the hang and down it goes.

Anyhow, this sounds awfully unsafe. However, I have no way to pull the tree bottom away from the lean and drag the tree out the way it probably should be done. I don't think a come along would be strong enough. I don't want to fell the tree that its hanging in, as I'd then have two trees to contend with.

On a couple occasions, I've been able to notch the tree that its hung in, then drop a 3rd tree on that to force it to fall.

Anyhow, other than bringing in a heavy piece of equipment, a winch, or god forbid, just plan better in the first place, what do other folks do that is acceptably safe? Is the only safe alternative a long cable and winch well away from the tree?

 

[MossRoad]

Also, hidden grape vines are my primary cause of this situation. The tree starts to go in the correct direction, then grape vines at the top grab and swing it over into a nearby tree.

 

[4570Man]

If a tree was hung up with no option of pulling the base I'd either leave it or have the tree guy that I help out by hauling off wood cut it. Any other option seems incredibly dangerous.

 

[Mikejeakins]

Not being familiar with gum trees - what is the issue? you have my curiosity peaked.

The wood inner twines making it hard to split even with a splitter. Black gum is ok.

 

[John_Mc]

I understand barber chairs fairly well on leaning trees.

I guess I should have clarified not exactly a leaner, but a tree that's hung up in another tree as it falls. So the tree starts to go, and for whatever reason (poor planning, odd twist, misjudgment of mass, pilot error, etc...) the tree falls into another tree and hangs mid-fall. What do you do?

I've had it happen twice in the last 6 years. What I did is probably dangerous, so I'd like a better solution. I ended up cutting a new notch on the top side of the tree, and doing a back cut from the underside, stopping to put a wedge in, then continuing. Basically, I'm felling the tree away from the lean. What happens is the tree buckles towards the hang, snaps the hinge, and drops straight down into the dirt. That decreases the angle of lean, but the tree is now 16" shorter and still hung. I've had to repeat this 5-6 times until the tree ends up vertical in the hang. The last cut section makes it fall away from the hang and down it goes.

Anyhow, this sounds awfully unsafe. However, I have no way to pull the tree bottom away from the lean and drag the tree out the way it probably should be done. I don't think a come along would be strong enough. I don't want to fell the tree that its hanging in, as I'd then have two trees to contend with.

On a couple occasions, I've been able to notch the tree that its hung in, then drop a 3rd tree on that to force it to fall.

Anyhow, other than bringing in a heavy piece of equipment, a winch, or god forbid, just plan better in the first place, what do other folks do that is acceptably safe? Is the only safe alternative a long cable and winch well away from the tree?

In my Game of Logging level 4 class we spent an entire day intentionally hanging up trees and then freeing them (the instructor let us choose what to focus on in level 4, and that was what we all wanted). It was quite an introduction to a variety of techniques I would not have thought of. I'm not sure I could do justice describing them here, but what you describe was one of them. I do have a couple of suggestions:

Rather than cutting off 16" at a time (which it sounds as though you are doing) I'd suggest cutting of about 4 feet. A couple of reasons for this: It minimizes the number of times you have to cut out another chunk. The fewer times you have to cut, the less exposure you have. It also lets you cut standing upright: you present a smaller target to falling limbs than when bent over, you are ready to move away more quickly if you need to, you can more easily see what is going on around you, and it's just a more convenient height at which to work. (As a bonus, you can still cut those 4 footers into 16" lengths later.)

You don't have to drop the stump directly toward the hang. By placing your notch someplace other than directly away from the lean, you can steer which way the butt will buckle when it starts to move. Sometimes this directional choice will let you unhang the tree more easily. For instance, if the tree I'm working on is hung up in the right side of a standing tree, I may want to swing the butt to the left as it hinges down, increasing the chances that gravity will help pull it out of the tree. There are limits to how far off-center you can make the notch. You'd still like gravity to buckle it for you, rather than having to force it manually. This usually means something less than 90˚ offset from directly opposite the direction of lean (sometimes, it needs to be significantly less than 90˚ off).

Another technique we practiced was known as "pole in a hole". We bore cut a hole in the tree - using four bore cuts all the way through to form a square which is removed from the tree, leaving a square hole. cut an 8 or 10 foot or so pole with an end that will fit in the hole. Put the pole in the hole and work the other end like a lever up and down. If you get the rhythm right, you can match the period of the trees swing and gradually work your way of to quite a swing. depending on how deeply it is hung up, you can often get it to let go by using this up and down swinging motion. A couple of things to watch out for: I generally do this with the butt still attached to the stump. Think about where you bore the hole and at what angle so the pole will be easy to work (and hopefully remain easy to work if the tree settles a couple of feet but does not drop all the way), do NOT hang over the pole or put your head over the pole and be prepared to let go when working it - if the tree goes, the pole can take you with it, or swing up and hit you in the head if your head is over it.

There are a couple of other techniques, but the ones above are easiest for me to describe.

Disclaimer: I'm not a chainsaw or tree-felling instructor. Use at your own risk. If you are ever out this way (VT), I can hook you up with a great company that does Game of Logging instruction. It ain't cheap, and they wont let you take level 4 unless you've taken 1 through 3, but it certainly made a difference for me - really changed the way I work in the woods.

 

[John_Mc]

All those methods in my previous post assume that you are cutting for firewood, or otherwise don't care about cutting up the log into short lengths. Your options are more limited if you are trying to preserve a sawlog.

 

[MossRoad]

In my Game of Logging level 4 class we spent an entire day intentionally hanging up trees and then freeing them (the instructor let us choose what to focus on in level 4, and that was what we all wanted). It was quite an introduction to a variety of techniques I would not have thought of. I'm not sure I could do justice describing them here, but what you describe was one of them. I do have a couple of suggestions:

Rather than cutting off 16" at a time (which it sounds as though you are doing) I'd suggest cutting of about 4 feet. A couple of reasons for this: It minimizes the number of times you have to cut out another chunk. The fewer times you have to cut, the less exposure you have. It also lets you cut standing upright: you present a smaller target to falling limbs than when bent over, you are ready to move away more quickly if you need to, you can more easily see what is going on around you, and it's just a more convenient height at which to work. (As a bonus, you can still cut those 4 footers into 16" lengths later.)

You don't have to drop the stump directly toward the hang. By placing your notch someplace other than directly away from the lean, you can steer which way the butt will buckle when it starts to move. Sometimes this directional choice will let you unhang the tree more easily. For instance, if the tree I'm working on is hung up in the right side of a standing tree, I may want to swing the butt to the left as it hinges down, increasing the chances that gravity will help pull it out of the tree. There are limits to how far off-center you can make the notch. You'd still like gravity to buckle it for you, rather than having to force it manually. This usually means something less than 90˚ offset from directly opposite the direction of lean (sometimes, it needs to be significantly less than 90˚ off).

Another technique we practiced was known as "pole in a hole". We bore cut a hole in the tree - using four bore cuts all the way through to form a square which is removed from the tree, leaving a square hole. cut an 8 or 10 foot or so pole with an end that will fit in the hole. Put the pole in the hole and work the other end like a lever up and down. If you get the rhythm right, you can match the period of the trees swing and gradually work your way of to quite a swing. depending on how deeply it is hung up, you can often get it to let go by using this up and down swinging motion. A couple of things to watch out for: I generally do this with the butt still attached to the stump. Think about where you bore the hole and at what angle so the pole will be easy to work (and hopefully remain easy to work if the tree settles a couple of feet but does not drop all the way), do NOT hang over the pole or put your head over the pole and be prepared to let go when working it - if the tree goes, the pole can take you with it, or swing up and hit you in the head if your head is over it.

There are a couple of other techniques, but the ones above are easiest for me to describe.

Disclaimer: I'm not a chainsaw or tree-felling instructor. Use at your own risk. If you are ever out this way (VT), I can hook you up with a great company that does Game of Logging instruction. It ain't cheap, and they wont let you take level 4 unless you've taken 1 through 3, but it certainly made a difference for me - really changed the way I work in the woods.

Thank you very much. Great descriptions. I'm learning a lot more about eyeing up a tree before felling it. My land is hilly, and its sometimes hard to eyeball the lean due to optical illusions. I've taken to standing back farther and using a plumb bob to verify actual lean from several angles VS apparent lean. I'm getting better at it, but I'll never let my guard down.

 

[MossRoad]

All those methods in my previous post assume that you are cutting for firewood, or otherwise don't care about cutting up the log into short lengths. Your options are more limited if you are trying to preserve a sawlog.

Yes, I understand that. I'm all firewood for my personal use. About 90% locust, 8% sassafras, and 2% cherry.