Mowing L2501 v L3301

JohnMaldaner · Nov 5, 2017

I’m on the fence, looking to purchase my first Kubota. Considering the L2501 or L3301, both HST. We have about 5 acres fenced and cross fenced for horses. I have been using a Ford 1900 with a loader and 5’ bush hog. I move around a manure pile and bush hog three fields. Plus a bunch of miscellaneous jobs around our small farm. My Ford is once again having steering issues and this time it’s serious. So, time for a change.

A friend down the road let me borrow his new L3301 HST. I hooked on my bush hog, put it in Medium range and had a blast! Smooth. Couldn’t believe how much easier the HST made bush hogging. Then, another friend let me come over to his farm and use his L2501 geared Kubota. Bush hogging was good, but in Low range and no HST, it seemed to take a long time, longer than with my old Ford. I want the L3301. But, the payments for the L2501 would fit our budget better.

Can you bush hog in High range with the L2501 if it has the HST? If so, maybe it would get the job done a little faster. The Low range seems to be geared so low! Same loader on both tractors and I doubt the horsepower difference would be dramatic. Any advice here? Don’t want buyer’s remorse if I get the L2501. But, if it would get the job done, saving a couple dollars would make the better half happy.

IraqVet1982 · Nov 5, 2017

I have a B2601 hydro trans with a Land Pride 5' Bush Hog and I have no issues in high gear.

I think you'll be fine with a 25hp.

Fallon · Nov 5, 2017

I had a L3200... Same machine as the L2501 before they regiggered it to get under the 25hp emissions limits. The L3301 is the same machine just with a few more HP & the emissions gear.

Weight defines what a tractor will do, HP just defines how fast it gets done. So they will both do the same work. The L3301 will just do it a bit faster.

High is really only usefully for roading the machine on smooth surfaces. I'd mow in Low or maybe Medium if there wasn't much to mow. Really unless you have very smooth ground you can't go much faster than max low or half medium anyways unless you want to dislodge your kidneys.

If you have a lot of heavier cutting (thick grass is actually worse than brush) you can just slow down to keep the machine at the proper RPM. So it comes down to you work at a slow pace or are retired? Or are you more impatient? I rarely regretted getting a L3200 instead of the extra 6hp on a L3800. I'm now on a L4060 more for the cab & HST+ than the extra HP.

JohnMaldaner · Nov 5, 2017

Thanks, guys. I am retired, so don’t need to be in a big hurry. It seemed like in the geared L2501 in Low range, I was crawling. It doesn’t have a medium range. By no means did I floor it in medium range in the L3301. About half, like you said, Fallon. I’d like to emulate that speed in the L2501 and I’d be good.

Milo · Nov 5, 2017

What about an L2501 HST which has three ranges like the L3301?

jeff9366 · Nov 5, 2017

FOXTAIL 10/08/2016

A warning for those considering a Gear Drive Kubota L2501

I want to tell my experience with a kubota L2501 in case it's useful to anyone considering this tractor, or a L3301. They are wonderful tractors but the buyer should be aware of the following if you're not planning to get a hydrostatic....

First some background: I cut 10 acres of rough land 1-2 times per year. I did this successfully with a John Deere 1023E tractor and 4 foot Frontier RC2048 cutter. The 1023E's ground clearance around the transmission was fairly low, however, and the ride was a bit rough. So I wanted to upgrade this summer. I wanted a Deere 3032E with 5 foot cutter but it ended up being more than I wanted to pay, especially since I am unlikely to ever put that many hours on the tractor. The new Deere 3025E seemed better for my budget, but is not out as of this writing, and in any case my John Deere dealer said it has only 17.4 PTO horsepower and thought that is too little for a 5 foot cutter.

So I talked to Kubota dealers, and they were quite supportive of putting a 5 foot cutter behind a L2501, which has better PTO horsepower than the Deere (and up to 70.2 lb-ft of torque, incidentally, compared to 51.3 for the 3025E and 64.2 for the 3032E; although torque is not probably as important as PTO HP).

I ended up with a Gear Drive Kubota L2501 with 5 foot Land Pride RCR1260 cutter. The gear drive saved maybe $1000 and offered more PTO horsepower (20.5 PTO HP vs 19.0 for the L2501HST). HOWEVER, the gear drive was a big MISTAKE for my situation:

Problem 1: Nonlive PTO. When mowing if you ever need to change a gear or reverse, you must fully depress the clutch pedal, which also shuts off the transmission-driven PTO (and rear cutter). If you are in heavy material and want to slow down or back up, your only choice is to raise the mower and keep going (but not getting the grass cut) or to put the clutch in, bringing the tractor and PTO to a complete stop. (Note that the gear drive L3301 also has nonlive transmission-driven PTO. The L3901 gear drive might have the advantage of a two stage clutch pedal, which can let the PTO keep going as you change gears. However, buyers should check this carefully).

Problem 2: There are only 8 forward gears on the L2501 and they are spaced somewhat widely for mowing. It's hard to find the specs, which are only in the Kubota owner's manual and not online. Here are the details:
Low2 is 1.1 mph (much too slow for mowing except for very heavy conditions)
Low3 is 1.6 mph (very slow for mowing -- much slower than I generally did in my 1023e with a much smaller engine -- but this is the most realistic option for most conditions)
Low4 is 2.8 mph (substantially faster than L3, and generally too fast for mowing for all but the lightest material -- but still may not get a good cut because you're going so fast)
Also: on the L2501 (unlike L3301 as I understand it) there is no shuttle shift, which means that if you want to go from forward to reverse, you have to fully depress the clutch, come to a complete stop, which shuts down the PTO as well, and slowly shift and let your clutch out again. To save the clutch, the PTO and the implement, you really should do all this at fairly low RPM. However, since this action is also how you get the tractor to start moving again, you need some power -- maybe 2000 RPM to get the whole thing to go. Your left leg will really get some strength training!

Anyway, a gear drive L2501, with its transmission-driven PTO and somewhat widely spaced gears, is a little bit like a 1950s type tractor, and is not for everyone! I am sure there is someone out there who loves it, and will promptly tell me I'm just inexperienced. If someone has had a good experience with this tractor, please share.

After nearly 5 hours of frustration, my dealer let me trade up to a L2501HST, which essentially solves the problem. I would not hesitate to recommend the L2501HST to anyone wanting to run 5 foot implements.

JohnMaldaner · Nov 5, 2017

Milo said:
What about an L2501 HST which has three ranges like the L3301?

Milo, if you are correct, problem solved! But, my understanding is the L2501 comes with only a Low-High in both gear driven and HST. Please correct me if I am wrong here!

JohnMaldaner · Nov 5, 2017

Jeff9366 - Thank you for such a detailed field report! In the short time that I operated the L2501 gear driven, I decided it was not what I wanted for bush hogging. Reminded me a bit of my old Ford 8N which did not have a live PTO. I also appreciate your thoughts on the L2501 HST and 5’ bush hog.

jeff9366 · Nov 5, 2017

L2501/HST has three (3) ranges.

JohnMaldaner · Nov 5, 2017

jeff9366 said:
L2501/HST has three (3) ranges.

Fantastic! Well that pretty much solves my problem. A salesman at one place told me it only had High-Low.

Fallon · Nov 5, 2017

JohnMaldaner said:
Fantastic! Well that pretty much solves my problem. A salesman at one place told me it only had High-Low.

I think old economy JD machines had a 2 speed HST. Every other HST tractor I've seen has a 3 speed. They are all straight cut gears with no synchros & can be finicky to shift. JD, Kiotis, LS, TYM & Kubota. Kubota does have HST+ on the Grand machines which gives you a shift on the fly high/low option for every range. With that you generally stay in M & just toggle high/low as needed.

HST transmissions eat up 15% of your HP compared to gear. But I think the convenience & flexibility more than makes up for it.

motownbrowne · Nov 6, 2017

I think you'll be very happy with the 2501 and the 3 range HST. There's been talk on here of turning up the pump to regain the power that they removed to get below 25 HP. You could always pursue that if you need a few more ponies. Also, if you're mowing on hills, removing the loader will give you a little more power to the mower because you don't have to carry as much weight up the slope. It's nicer mowing with the loader off anyway.

Hill HIgh Guy · Nov 6, 2017

I'm glad this topic came up as I've narrowed down my search to the L2501 and L3301. I only have 3 acres but almost the entire property is on an incline. I'm concerned the L2501 will not have enough grunt to go up and down the hills pulling a 5' cutter. I don't need to go race car fast but I don't want it to bog in high grass either.

Anyone specifically have experience with cutting on a hill with the L2501 HST?

Thanks!

wagne223 · Nov 6, 2017

I will be quoting and repeating what some members have already said, however it is worth repeating.

-Not too long ago 25hp was common in this frame/size/weight of tractor.

-There will be times, no matter how much HP you have, you will want more.

- It is important to remember, with an HST, more HST pedal equals more speed and less torque. People naturally want to push harder on the HST pedal when the load increases, however this will result in slowing/bogging the machine. Ease up on the HST pedal to increase torque and relieve load on the engine.

- Weight defines what a tractor can do, HP defines how fast it can do it.

Now, items specific to the L2501 in HST

- It does have 3 ranges

- To get the most out of this tractor, ignore the 540 mark on the tach and pull the throttle lever all the way (WOT) the engine will run between 24 and 2500 RPM. Everything performs better.
If you only open the throttle to 2100 RPM (the PTO 540 mark) the tractor will bog under heavy load either doing loader work or PTO work.
Of course if the job is only morerate then you only need enough RPM to perform the task.

-I purchased the L2501 to keep things simple and it was at a better price point.

How fast you can mow will be dependent on what you are mowing. Personally I manage a hunting lease in north FL. My mowing consists of 8 foot heavy brush and 2-3" trees. Clearing overgrown trails or clearing a spot for food plots that has not been mowed in 10 years. My use is much heavier then most people and therefore is not a good comparison.
The tractor does it though! I have to use low range and go slow.

When maintenance mowing existing trails, with only 1-2 foot grass and light brush, using medium range is no problem.

I do not have any videos of mowing yet, however, I do have a few videos of digging with the FEL and smoothing a road. I made the videos just for people interested in the L2501 and want to see and hear the capability of this machine. When I was looking there was not a lot of videos out there.
I should get some mowing video soon.

If anyone is interested, here is one video. You can then click on my name to see the other videos on my channel.

Kubota L251 Digging in unbroken ground - YouTube

-Rob

Fallon · Nov 6, 2017

Hill HIgh Guy said:
I'm glad this topic came up as I've narrowed down my search to the L2501 and L3301. I only have 3 acres but almost the entire property is on an incline. I'm concerned the L2501 will not have enough grunt to go up and down the hills pulling a 5' cutter. I don't need to go race car fast but I don't want it to bog in high grass either.

Anyone specifically have experience with cutting on a hill with the L2501 HST?

Thanks!

As I noted before, just slow down. A competent operator won't ever big a HST machine. An aware novice shouldn't either. If you ease off the go pedal you slow down putting less load on the engine moving the tractor & decreasing the amount of brush per unit if time the mower has to process.

The L2501 has less HP than my old L3200, but punches above it's weight due to some tweaks they did only for the purpose of getting it rated under 25hp for emissions. As long as you aren't climbing 25% slopes in heavy grass (heavy thick grass is noticably harder to cut than brush) you'll be fine. You'll have to go slower, but the machine will handle it fine. That's the beauty of a HST. You just wiggle your toes & you can go as fast or as slow as needed. It's trivial to second by second keep that peddle pushed as far as you can without bogging the engine then ease off a hair if the RPMs start dropping.

Garandman · Nov 6, 2017

motownbrowne said:
I think you'll be very happy with the 2501 and the 3 range HST. There's been talk on here of turning up the pump to regain the power that they removed to get below 25 HP.

The 2501 engine is bigger than the L3200 and the max horsepower is at a lower rpm.

I seriously question whether the L2501 is less powerful than the L3200 at all.

With our L3200 we really only use High for transit. Medium should give a good rate of speed for mowing.

Hill HIgh Guy · Nov 6, 2017

I really appreciate the responses. Sorry to highjack the post

My local dealer was really trying to convince me that I would be unhappy with the L2501 and that I should give him another $1,800 for the L3301.

JohnMaldaner · Nov 6, 2017

Great thread and Hill High Guy I appreciate your questions, too.

Just placed my order for the L2501/HST. Going to get pallet forks, too. I can see lots of uses for them.

I appreciate the help here! Makes me feel better about buying Kubota knowing you guys are here for advice!

jeff9366 · Nov 6, 2017

Hill HIgh Guy said:
I really appreciate the responses. Sorry to highjack the post

My local dealer was really trying to convince me that I would be unhappy with the L2501 and that I should give him another $1,800 for the L3301.

I do not know the altitude in Purcellville, Virginia. If you will be operating at over 3,500 feet altitude spending the additional $1,800 may be worthwhile.

Dealers are worth listening too. You can cross check dealer recommendations here.