Tesla semi

[Redneck in training]

The LiIon batteries can be charged at pretty high rate. The loacal delivery truck coul be plugged in the charger everytime it load/unloads. That way they could get by with way smaller batteries. Siemens and Volvo make an electric bus that charges at every stop (from overhead lines) while loading and unloading people. That way it can operate all day with much smaller battery.

 

[flusher]

I hadn't thought about local trucking, only long haul, maybe the time is now for that use of an EV to be more cost effective! The heavy urban areas have more problem with air pollution which would give EVs an extra leg up, plus you eliminate the problem with recharging, as long as you aren't running the trucks 24/7.

All you folks screaming about the true cost of EVs, what is the true cost of oil production? Are you taking into account all the subsidies the oil industry gets? V or any entity for that matter that can afford to buy its politicians! Don't forget to add in all the help the internal combustion engine has gotten the last hundred years with all the government funding directly and indirectly, both nationally and internationally. I can't imagine anyone every figuring out the 'true" cost of anything!

The port of Long Beach is one of the major gateways for imports into the U.S. There are hundreds of diesel trucks there at any one time, engines idling (and polluting), waiting to get a container loaded onto its trailer from one of those gigantic container ships. From there the load takes a 50-60 mile trip to the hundreds of warehouses in the Inland Empire (San Bernardino, Riverside, Ontario, etc) for distribution. Here is an ideal situation for something like the Tesla Semi. The Long Beach port authority has to limit the amount of truck idling because of air pollution from the diesels. Electric semis will make a big difference.

 

[toppop52]

Like everything the first few hundred thousand are going to cost a lot more than the millions that follow. And like everything else, it won't happen all at once but one segment at a time. Probably starting with the companies that own a fleet of local delivery trucks.

I am not an engineer by any means but the wheel motors I have seen that capture the regenerative braking are tiny, while these would have to be upsized in a truck I don't think they would be any heavier than existing truck brakes.

And I totally disagree that diesel will only be around for decades, it will be around around a lot longer, in my opinion. The amount of concentrated energy in those dead dinosaurs is going to be hard( maybe impossible) to replace, at least until we have flux capacitors I think there will always be applications where it is the best and possibly only workable solution.

In my own industry, commercial fishing, while day boats could and will eventually become EVs or possibly hybrid, I can't imagine it being possible for the boats out fishing for weeks/months on end, power needed is just too large and the consequences of losing power are really too large!

I didn稚 say diesel would only be around for decades, I said at least. Electric is a viable power source for vehicles, but it痴 a long way from dominating the market. I hope it gets cheap and practical quickly, but it痴 not there yet for many applications.

 

[toppop52]

Possibly true in the sense of what we call subsidies today, but that doesn't mean they didn't manipulate the market and laws in ways that pushed money toward them over and above straight market pressures of supply and demand.

Maybe, Ransom Olds might have manipulated the government, but I haven稚 seen the proof.

 

[toppop52]

Plenty of Teslas hitting 200-300k miles so far, most of the battery degradation is in the first 50k so I don't see any reason they could go to 500k.

Tesla Model S durability: cars with 25K and 3K miles still humming along happily

Well, maybe, but 250k is not 500k and accumulating miles in a short period doesn稚 allow for time degradation, batteries die from age as well as use.

 

[flusher]

What about batteries, they are not lasting half a million miles? And again, where is your proof of what you post?

This video has up-to-date info on battery life in the Tesla models S and X. It's about 300,000 miles.

Tesla Batteries Last Forever (Basically) - YouTube

 

[houstonscott]

The port of Long Beach is one of the major gateways for imports into the U.S. There are hundreds of diesel trucks there at any one time, engines idling (and polluting), waiting to get a container loaded onto its trailer from one of those gigantic container ships. From there the load takes a 50-60 mile trip to the hundreds of warehouses in the Inland Empire (San Bernardino, Riverside, Ontario, etc) for distribution. Here is an ideal situation for something like the Tesla Semi. The Long Beach port authority has to limit the amount of truck idling because of air pollution from the diesels. Electric semis will make a big difference.

A second idea would be to make the products in those containers here...

 

[toppop52]

UDSA burns about 143 billion gal of gas and about 30 billion of diesel per year. 18.5 billion divided by 173 billion equal 11c/gal. That is the best case. 52 billion divided by 173 billion equals about 30c/gal. That is the worst case. In any case it worse than my previous estimate.
How much gasoline does the United States consume? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

The military isn稚 just to protect oil, how much provable budget is used to protect foreign oil?

 

[toppop52]

The port of Long Beach is one of the major gateways for imports into the U.S. There are hundreds of diesel trucks there at any one time, engines idling (and polluting), waiting to get a container loaded onto its trailer from one of those gigantic container ships. From there the load takes a 50-60 mile trip to the hundreds of warehouses in the Inland Empire (San Bernardino, Riverside, Ontario, etc) for distribution. Here is an ideal situation for something like the Tesla Semi. The Long Beach port authority has to limit the amount of truck idling because of air pollution from the diesels. Electric semis will make a big difference.

And there is the practical application!

 

[toppop52]

This video has up-to-date info on battery life in the Tesla models S and X. It's about 300,000 miles.

Tesla Batteries Last Forever (Basically) - YouTube

The first thing he tells you is there is no empirical data available... then he tells you the battery won’t be dead for 85 years or something, but they will be useless long before that. Even a 15% decrease is significant. If you listen to the whole segment, I’m not sure it’s all that glowing.

 

[vvanders]

Well, maybe, but 250k is not 500k and accumulating miles in a short period doesn稚 allow for time degradation, batteries die from age as well as use.

I mean you can't say "show me the proof" and the discredit it when it's not 100% perfect.

We've had the Model S out for ~7 years now and no reports of significant degradation over that time.

FWIW most of the degradation in lithium batteries is from temperature. If you keep the pack cool and don't overdraw when it's cold then they last a long, long time.

 

[Renze]

...and even hydrogen fuel cell vehicles of all kinds and sizes.

All right, but hydrogen doesnt come free either, it has the same problem as EV: Who is going to produce the "green" electricity needed to harvest hydrogen by running an electric current through water, letting the oxygen escape, and collecting the hydrogen for use in a fuel cell... Solyndra ??

 

[houstonscott]

I mean you can't say "show me the proof" and the discredit it when it's not 100% perfect. We've had the Model S out for ~7 years now and no reports of significant degradation over that time. FWIW most of the degradation in lithium batteries is from temperature. If you keep the pack cool and don't overdraw when it's cold then they last a long, long time.

How many powertrains have you replaced. Are the seats torn yet, or has the seat back broke off altogether. You get tired of the stupid touch screen for everything idea, bad ergonomics while driving. A battery and electric motor with an iPad in it is not any thing advanced. Now look at a real technology packed car, built by real car engineers.

BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

 

[toppop52]

I mean you can't say "show me the proof" and the discredit it when it's not 100% perfect.

We've had the Model S out for ~7 years now and no reports of significant degradation over that time.

FWIW most of the degradation in lithium batteries is from temperature. If you keep the pack cool and don't overdraw when it's cold then they last a long, long time.

Well, I didn’t want to say it, but you didn’t show proof, so don’t accuse me of misrepresentation. Your so called proof, started by admitting they didn’t have reliable information so they winged it.

 

[cqaigy2]

Maybe, Ransom Olds might have manipulated the government, but I haven稚 seen the proof.

Im just going from memory of junior high American History class, and that was a long long time ago and i was thinking more on the "Big Oil" side.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

How many powertrains have you replaced. Are the seats torn yet, or has the seat back broke off altogether. You get tired of the stupid touch screen for everything idea, bad ergonomics while driving. A battery and electric motor with an iPad in it is not any thing advanced. Now look at a real technology packed car, built by real car engineers. BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

Looks like BMW had a few bugs to work out, wonder when they will start producing them.

 

[vvanders]

Well, I didn稚 want to say it, but you didn稚 show proof, so don稚 accuse me of misrepresentation. Your so called proof, started by admitting they didn稚 have reliable information so they winged it.

I'm not accusing you of misrepresentation, I'm accusing you of moving the goal posts, there's a subtle difference . (that was sarcasm for those who have trouble understanding tone).

You're right, we don't have the data yet. However in the absence of data then extrapolation is a reasonable technique. Currently all the data we have trends towards an asymptotic degradation in battery based on miles.

Take a look at Tesla Model S battery degradation data | Steinbuch there's a *ton* of data there most of which matches up with what I've seen at 61k.

 

[houstonscott]

Looks like BMW had a few bugs to work out, wonder when they will start producing them.

Already did for three years. You could have bought one.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Already did for three years. You could have bought one.

Not me I am neither rich or famous, like the "select lessee's" those cars were sold to, not sure why anyone would want a sedan that got less than 5 miles to the gallon anyways, no wonder they stopped after only 3 years.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

That is utopia. Have you ever been in a country with powerless government? They are horible places to live.

I didn't say even one syllable about a powerless government, but that's a typical liberal for you.