Tesla semi

[vvanders]

Thank you for this first hand report! The working people get abused by the excess provided to keep Tesla afloat and at their own expense.

All of those incentives are available for GM, FCA, etc to take advantage of. It's not like Tesla is getting preferential treatment. The only Tesla specific thing I'm aware of is a DoE loan that they paid back ahead of time *and* the tax payers made money on it.

The case above for business use is not limited in how it's applied, if you want to get a 6klb SUV you too can qualify for a $10-25k+ tax break which is way great than any EV credits. Heck if you make it a truck you can write off the full vehicle price.

How a big SUV and a home office can cut your tax bill - MarketWatch

 

[Redneck in training]

It was pretty funny though, reading the comments treating it as serious comment.

Those must be members of "Flat Earth" society.

 

[Sodo]

If they start moving freight ( and lots more cars too ) with electricity, where some portion of this electricity comes from wind, sun, hydro or any source thats NOT oil, wouldn’t that cause an oversupply of oil and result in a drop in oil prices? This could be a big win for consumers.

Why would a normal person oppose cheaper gas? Or why would any trucker oppose cheaper diesel? I don’t think they would. They must be listening to bad information.

If they’re pushing forward on moving freight with electricity there must be some real efficient battery storage coming (soon?) to enable this.

 

[dragoneggs]

Here's a research-based article that considers overall life-cycle.
50% was their conclusion overall for Europe with substantial variance by region.

Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds:
Researchers calculated the total lifecycle emissions of an electric car, including its manufacture, battery manufacture, and all of its energy consumption


Also, there are several other interesting articles linked from that page.

Just to be clear... the article says 50% by 2030. That is a guess 13 years out in the future! I'm still asking for 2017 data.

On average, electric vehicles will emit half the CO2 emissions of a diesel car by 2030, including the manufacturing emissions, said Yoann Le Petit, a spokesman for the T&E think tank, which commissioned the study.

 

[Renze]

On average, electric vehicles will emit half the CO2 emissions of a diesel car by 2030, including the manufacturing emissions, said Yoann Le Petit, a spokesman for the T&E think tank, which commissioned the study.

Yup, and Al Gore told us 10 years ago the sun would burn us all down by now because of the greenhouse effect. Find out who pays for the study, then think again.

 

[two_bit_score]

Well, Elon has things running so efficiently down at the plant they just don稚 need any employees.

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

Great job Elon!

 

[cqaigy2]

Well, Elon has things running so efficiently down at the plant they just don稚 need any employees.

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

Great job Elon!

Not the first, and certainly not the last.

 

[houstonscott]

Tesla has lost $666 million so far in 2017. Not good.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Hydrogen fuel cells.

Submarines have been powered by batteries (diesel electric) from before when most people on these forums were born.

 

[Snobdds]

Submarines have been powered by batteries (diesel electric) from before when most people on these forums were born.

No. Just flat wrong.

We have something better. Nuclear reactors.

 

[flusher]

Well, Elon has things running so efficiently down at the plant they just don稚 need any employees.

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

Great job Elon!

The TARP bailout of the U.S. auto industry in 2008, excluding Tesla, eventually cost the U.S. Treasury $9.24B.

Final tally: Taxpayers auto bailout loss $9.3B

 

[Sodo]

Jerry Hirsch who wrote that LA Times article lists his services on muckrack.com. Jerry Hirsch | Trucks.com Journalist | Muck Rack

Muckrack.com connects 'journalists' to clients who will pay for their 'journalism'. Also called "PR" = "Public Relations." Here's an excerpt from the top page on muckrack.com. Find and contact journalists, bloggers and freelancers who cover your niche or industry, monitor the news as it breaks, and generate quantifiable reports on your PR efforts.

"generate quantifiable reports on your PR efforts." Think about THAT for just a moment....

Jerry Hirsch is also a editor for "https://www.trucks.com". One can easily imagine how the trucking industry would be afraid of how this newcomer (Tesla) might change the way money flows within their industry. Transportation is one of the HUGE market sectors that investors use to suck money out of consumer's pockets. And Energy/petroleum is another biggie, of course. The LAST thing these investment sectors need, is the US government changing the investmet landscape. Especially in such a way that excludes THEM. Consequently these investment sectors will spend HUGE amounts of money on "public relations", to drive people against changes to their own benefit.

Public Relations firms operate trolls on forums too ya know....

Anyway, I don't trust Jerry Hirsch. I think that is a paid advertisement. The electric vehicle industry is the future. Which may devalue the petroleum industry, so you KNOW they will be fighting back, with paid advertisements all over the news media.

The USA has an opportunity NOW to be the leader in electric vehicle innovation. The time is NOW to take the LEAD, which we have done. To shut this down to allow the investment sectors to keep sucking money from the consumers (for a little while awhile longer) is just foolish. Consumers will lose out in efficiency. And we lose our place as industry leader too.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Thankfully based on what I am reading the Chinese may fund the Chrysler/Fiat this time around so we do not have to do TARP again. Since China seems to be on tract to own the EV market world wide they may be the ones that bails out Musk. There is only on part of the EV that is critical and that will the producing high quality/amp EV batteries and I expect China is gearing up to be the world out in EV batteries.

 

[Renze]

We have something better. Nuclear reactors.

That indeed is the only way to produce electricity for all those electric vehicles... And winning rare earth metals for the super energy dense batteries, cause huge pollution catastrophes in China.

 

[two_bit_score]

Tesla has lost $666 million so far in 2017. Not good.

More bad news on Tesla >>> “Breitbart News reported earlier this month that Tesla had increased its negative cash burn by $13 million a day as the company’s Fremont plant tried to ramp up Model 3 production from 200 cars for the month to 10,000 per week. The Market Watch analysts’ survey reveals that Tesla is expected to report a loss of $2.28 a share in this quarter, versus adjusted profit of 71 cents a share last year.

But Tesla seems to have addressed the issue by filing with the SEC over the weekend that the company expanded its bank warehouse borrowing capacity by $500 million, from $600 million to $1.1 billion.” <<<<

 

[CincyFlyer]

No. Just flat wrong.

We have something better. Nuclear reactors.

What I wrote certainly isn't wrong. Not even a little! Not very many countries have [or had] nuclear submarines. I agree, nukes are the best way (except for that six-to-eighteen-month refueling stop).

 

[toppop52]

Jerry Hirsch who wrote that LA Times article lists his services on muckrack.com. Jerry Hirsch | Trucks.com Journalist | Muck Rack

Muckrack.com connects 'journalists' to clients who will pay for their 'journalism'. Also called "PR" = "Public Relations." Here's an excerpt from the top page on muckrack.com. Find and contact journalists, bloggers and freelancers who cover your niche or industry, monitor the news as it breaks, and generate quantifiable reports on your PR efforts.

"generate quantifiable reports on your PR efforts." Think about THAT for just a moment....

Jerry Hirsch is also a editor for "https://www.trucks.com". One can easily imagine how the trucking industry would be afraid of how this newcomer (Tesla) might change the way money flows within their industry. Transportation is one of the HUGE market sectors that investors use to suck money out of consumer's pockets. And Energy/petroleum is another biggie, of course. The LAST thing these investment sectors need, is the US government changing the investmet landscape. Especially in such a way that excludes THEM. Consequently these investment sectors will spend HUGE amounts of money on "public relations", to drive people against changes to their own benefit.

Public Relations firms operate trolls on forums too ya know....

Anyway, I don't trust Jerry Hirsch. I think that is a paid advertisement. The electric vehicle industry is the future. Which may devalue the petroleum industry, so you KNOW they will be fighting back, with paid advertisements all over the news media.

The USA has an opportunity NOW to be the leader in electric vehicle innovation. The time is NOW to take the LEAD, which we have done. To shut this down to allow the investment sectors to keep sucking money from the consumers (for a little while awhile longer) is just foolish. Consumers will lose out in efficiency. And we lose our place as industry leader too.

Electric isn稚 鍍he future? it痴 part of the future, and it will remain a smaller part until it becomes stand alone profitable. I知 not against EV at all, but there is no one answer.

 

[Egon]

Submarines have been powered by batteries (diesel electric) from before when most people on these forums were born.

Hydrogen fuel cells are quite different from batteries.

On the batteries you're quite correct.

 

[dragoneggs]

How about magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) propulsion? Then cars could go underwater!

Chinese Navy Tests Experimental Magnetic Propulsion System

 

[vvanders]

Electric isn稚 鍍he future? it痴 part of the future, and it will remain a smaller part until it becomes stand alone profitable. I知 not against EV at all, but there is no one answer.

Totally 100% in agreement here. When we bought our Tesla it wasn't cheaper but we saw it as an investment in something that might be viable. If no one buys them then the investment isn't made.

If they can bring the initial capital cost down I think there's tons of potential. I went from ~$500/mo in gas+oil down to $30 despite driving more miles, that's incredible.

The other thing to consider is that Lithium based batteries are a technology and not heavily resource based so there's a good chance they'll follow the exponential curve that a lot of other technology has. LiFePo4 is only 21 years old since first publishing. Considering the same R&D dumped into traditional combustion cars that's a huge delta.

Heck if you look at the last 10 years they've been making 3% increases each year. That's a compounding percentage which is why you're already seeing 100kw+ in the same package that used to fit 60kw just a few years ago.